Comment by hartator | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hartator | Hacker News Reader

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No one is against making print a function, we are just disappointed against the mandatory bracket thing. It's exactly what's wrong, you are not understanding because you don't want to listen. I agree with all the arguments you are presenting, but why can't you see why having to add - mandatory - brackets can be annoying?

In addition, the hack is already there:

  Python 3.5.2 (default, Dec 2015, 13:05:11)
  [GCC 4.8.2] on linux
     print "hello"
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "python", line 1
      print "hello"
                  ^
  SyntaxError: Missing parentheses in call to 'print'

Why not just calling print? We can do it right now and it's requiring no changes to the 3.x parser.

Finally, the print stuff was one of the main reasons I pick Ruby over Python for my startup 5 years ago. I may be alone but I don't think so. And I think I make the right decision. Look at the some of the latest benchmarks Ruby vs Python. Python is now lagging strongly behind when it was ahead 5 years ago with 2.7. The 3.x branch keeps making weird decisions.

> we are just disappointed against the mandatory bracket thing. It's exactly what's wrong, you are not understanding because you don't want to listen.

It's not hard. This isn't some arbitrary bracket hate or love, it's how the language syntax works at it's core: statements (e.g. if, el, in) never have brackets, function invocation always has. Simple!

So what am I not understanding? That you are proposing some other syntax, e.g. function invocation without brackets? That you don't like breaking changes? That you'd keep everything as it was for sake of habit? Python 3 breaks Python 2 in many ways, but okay. Any other coherent arguments why `print` should remain a statement?

> Finally, the print stuff was one of the main reasons I pick Ruby over Python for my startup 5 years ago

There are enough things to not like about Python 3. But do not get me started on Ruby. A language that constantly breaks stuff between minor version numbers (1.8 -> 1.9, 1.9 -> 2.0, etc)? Way to undermine your own argument.

Edit: To append this infamous article about a Ruby migration 1.8.7 to 1.9.3 (http://www.darkridge.com/~jpr5/2012/10/03/ruby-1.8.7-1.9.3-m...), lest I be accused of Ruby bashing. Of course, the original article we're discussing mentions Ruby in the same breath with Python 3. Oh, the irony of trying to put down Python 3 by citing Ruby.

Ruby allowed you to write code that worked in every version from 1.8.6 to 2.4, a huge benefit when writing libraries during the transition phase.

Things like the parentheses in print was why the 2.7 branch was created -- allow the old to exist and make available some of the new features. Probably the biggest mistake there was not to make deprecation warnings on by default, to accentuate that it was a transitionary release. Then again, it's the same problem PHP has, with not wanting to warn that the old way of doing things is going away for various reasons.

In python, functions are called using parentheses, so "make print a function" implies "require parentheses in calls to print". It would be weird to create a special case for the "functions are called using parantheses" rule just for print.

So make it a function, but the only function with optional parentheses? And only in some cases?

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