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Comment by joshontheweb | Hacker News Reader

Agreed. Tipping culture gives more power to the customer and results in better service in my experience. Every time I come back to the US I experience a noticeable increase in attention and service. Also, when abroad, if they find out you are from the US many servers will put in extra work as they know there is a decent chance you will tip based on your home culture. I always tip even in countries where it isn't expected especially if I plan on frequenting the establishment regularly. Im happy to pay a bit more for more attentive service.

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I disagree.

I'm an expatriated US citizen, and I find the restaurant service abroad on par with US restaurants, with the only difference being how much lip service is given by the servers.

To explain it simply, in US restaurants, I feel like someone is trying to brown-nose the entire time. It's not value that I seek, it's someone doing something and trying to place value on it. The servers are mostly pleasant, and at worst, it's just over the top corporate politeness being enforced, with of course the occasional just bad service.

Abroad, the server is indifferent - when the food is ready, it is brought. They are as polite as you would you expect a restaurant server to be, and in general just want to take your order, deliver food, and then get out of your way because they know you're not at the restaurant for their company, you're there to have some food and drink, presumably with friends/family/colleagues. And just like with US restaurants, there is occasional bad service.

The difference in my mind is the attempt to provide the 'service' that isn't really necessary. This isn't looking down on servers or dismissing the effect a good attitude can have on enjoying a meal, but for the most part the degree to which it is taken when I'm back in the US is over the top. I know it's hard work and that the servers want to do everything possible, but corporate politeness isn't the way to do it. It makes the experience feel really rushed to me and it also feels like a process instead of me being able to just relax and enjoy some good food.

What upsets me is when I have to wait too long for refills on drinks and if I'm not checked back on to see if anything else is needed shortly after the food is served. I've had many experience in non-tipping countries where you may never see your waiter again after the meal is served. Of course, thats just my experience but it seems fairly consistent. I never have that problem in the US and if I do, I certainly don't tip.

If there is poor service report it to the manager or something but please don't withhold a tip. I've explained the reasons in another comment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13263490

I cannot speak for all restaurants and all counties, but as noted in my comment, I'm currently abroad in Russia (St. Petersburg), and while it's true that the servers generally don't check in for anything else other than the bill once the food is served, it's also true that they'll be there pretty much immediately if you ask for them or signal them. A simple gesture and they'll be there pretty much as they are able to be.

To me this seems the right balance of service and respect of privacy.

As an aside, my experience is that most restaurants also don't really do refills so much as "another drink purchase", so it kind of makes sense in my mind that they're not keeping an eye on how much liquid you have left - if you want to spend money on another drink, you'll let them know.

I think this is just a cultural difference as well as a different way of business. To me having a server constantly checking in on how much is left in my glass or interrupting to pour a drink is more disruptive than a quick gesture to catch the server's attention and signal them over.

You are probably missing the point. Most people would not mind tipping for good service. It is when the tip is thrust upon you that it becomes a problem. When people start saying stuff like 'oh! you are robbing the waiter of his income', it becomes downright offensive. Tipping should be contingent on good service. It needs to be earned, not demanded to make up for an employer skimping on wage.

The thing people seem to be missing though is that a set "expected tip level" ruins the whole thing. If you are expected to tip 20% for just "service" what incentive does that give to provide "good service"?

Sure you might have a higher chance of getting 30% for good service - but I think it's probably easier to get 10 or 20% for good service in a place where 0% is the expected level.

If you aren't getting service worthy of tips, don't tip. No one is going to stop you on your way out. You may get worse service the next time you come back. However, why would you go back if the service was bad the first time?

> If you aren't getting service worthy of tips

Thats the idea also where there isn't a set level of expected tip (like in most of the world).

I'm not opposed to the idea of tipping, I'm opposed to the idea of a specific level of tip being expected, effectively making it a part of the staffs wages (which consequently means staff isnt' paid if you choose not to tip).

I was stopped and asked for a tip in a Canadian bar when I went to take the drinks back to our table. A dollar per beer to take the cap off.

But North American's do seem to enjoy paying more than advertised. First a bunch of taxes, then some tips, I don't get it.

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