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Comment by duneroadrunner | Hacker News Reader

> and so I'm stuck with C++

If you're stuck with C++, might as well do it safely:

(shameless plug) https://github.com/duneroadrunner/SaferCPlusPlus

I looked briefly at your code. I don't believe it is possible to be compatible with the STL and safe in the way the Rust guys intend.

I might be wrong though. What happens with your vector in this code?

    using namespace mse::mstd;
    vector<double> data(10);
    double& dangling = data[0];
    data.resize(100000);
    double crashing = dangling;

You use a lot of typedefs, so I couldn't tell for sure, but I think your operator[] returns a C++ reference right?

The problem here is there is only one operator[] for both reading and writing. This is a simple contrived example, and taking a reference like that looks artificial, but there are a lot of other ways in real programs to stumble on to this. (I don't think it's as bad as the Rusties do, but I stumble into this bug once or twice a year...)

The Rust folks seem to believe you need a borrow checker to solve this problem, but I think that a different container library in C++ could do the trick. For instance, favoring value copies instead of references, and returning a proxy object from operator[] instead of a reference.

Native C++ references are technically unsafe, so code that uses them would not qualify as "strict" SaferCPlusPlus code. In the case of your example, the "double&" is technically not kosher. The easiest way to make it safe would probably be to use a (safe) iterator instead of a native reference. So instead of

    double& dangling = data[0];

you could make it

    auto not_dangling_iter = data.begin();
    // not_dangling_iter += 0;

C++ references are the one unsafe element that does not have a "compatible" safe replacement. Unfortunately, you have to convert your references to pointers (or iterators). I don't think there is a way to create a "safe" reference with an interface compatible with native references. Apparently C++ will at some point add the ability to overload the dot operator, but I'm not sure that will be enough to be able to emulate C++ references.

And while I can overload the & (address of) operator to "prevent" you from getting a native pointer to a "safe" object, I don't know if there's a way to prevent you from getting a native reference. If you wanted to somehow enforce a prohibition on the use of unsafe C++ elements (like references), that would probably require some sort of static tool that is not yet available. But should be fairly straightforward to implement, I think.

But if you just want some confidence in the safety of the code you write, it doesn't take much effort to reliably avoid using C++'s unsafe elements.

> returning a proxy object from operator[] instead of a reference.

Oh yeah, maybe. But that would still require the ability to overload the dot operator, wouldn't it? And how would you know when to deallocate the proxy object? And presumably there would be some run-time overhead. Hmm, I don't know if it wouldn't be more practical to create a static tool (or "precompiler") to automatically convert references to (safe) pointers (or iterators).

Yes, the dot operator is a headache. As soon as you march down the road of a precompiler, you're off to building a new language. I think C++'s grammar is too much of a mess to just tweak the parse tree reliably. I suspect there really isn't a way to win at this - every workaround is partial and involves compromise.

You know, while C++ references are technically unsafe, there is TRegisteredRefWrapper<> [1]. It's a safe version of std::reference_wrapper. Which kind of acts like a reference. So, if you don't mind me using std::strings instead of doubles, your example could be rewritten like

    mse::mstd::vector<mse::TRegisteredObj<std::string>> data(10);
    data[0] = "some text";
    mse::TRegisteredRefWrapper<std::string> dangling = data[0];
    data.resize(100000);
    try {
    	std::string crashing = dangling;
    }
    catch (...) {
    	// expected exception (not a segfault)
    	int q = 3;
    }

Does that work for you? I'm not an expert on std::reference_wrapper, so I'm not sure when it can and cannot substitute for a reference. (Btw, if it's a little verbose for you, there are shorter aliases available. Just search for "shorter aliases" in the header files.)

[1] https://github.com/duneroadrunner/SaferCPlusPlus#tregistered...

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