Startup Puts Everything You Need for a Two-Acre Farm in a Shipping Container
smithsonianmag.com
smithsonianmag.com
I went to their funding page and read more about what's inside the "box" https://republic.co/farm-from-a-box
1: micro-drip irrigation system
2: 3kW solar power
3: Pumping System
4: IOT setup
5: Energy management
6: Basic farm tools
As of 2016, average cost of solar power is approximately $3.00 per watt so ~ $9K. I have installed a decent sized drip water irrigation system in my backyard purchased with stuff off of Amazon for a total of $200 max. IOT is unnecessary here. I mean would "poor" people require to purchase Iphones and Macbooks too to see data collected from the IOT setup? A manual water pump like this (http://www.top-pumps.com/pro/20090613195613.jpg )or even an electric one does not go north of $1k-1.5k. Most solar panels and reserve battery system come with a built-in energy management feature. This box does not even contain a variety of seeds, soil, fertilizer and other mandatory things required for proper farming. Think outside the box.
We have one farmer who uses some of our equipment, but he has also had good luck with soil in Fort Collins, CO [1]. He's on a hill though near a lake which might help. He said drainage was important for him.
Vertical farming is a great way to get around issues with soil quality. Especially for winter growing and also reducing the labor associated with planting, weeding, and harvesting. Seriously though, schedule a time to drop by if you're ever up in Laramie. We have a lot of knowledgeable people here who love talking growing! One of my coworkers has also done some good work on the economics or vertical farming (using our equipment mainly, as – well – that's what we know!) [2]. Much of the economics should be comparable on other vertical systems (though, probably less efficient you know ;) ).
Are you a software dev or tech person? Always fun to talk about the combo of farm and tech!
1: http://bayberryfresh.com/ 2: https://youtu.be/u-aFueGWSFU?t=6m1s
http://aces.nmsu.edu/ces/yard/2007/020307.htmlHigh altitude gardening (e.g., in the mountains) is difficult, but that is more due to the short growing season than the soil.
Last year a random 40-acre hilltop plot at Indian Creek was listed for 30k and finally sold for 15k, which is amazing. Its neighboring 40-acre lot with a view of Bear Lake is currently being sold for 30k. Lots of variances in prices and terrain, including mountain tops. Or at least tall hills, whatever they officially are.
One of the weirdest incentives for me to keep looking is that certain counties in ID don't have building codes: you're on your own. That flexibility cuts both ways, but it means you could make a mud and straw house if you felt like it, without interference. Of course, cabin kits are probably safer and more practical.
So - why Wyoming? Why don't you go some place with milder weather that isn't a desert like Kansas or Arkansas?
We got a whole lotta land up here, and most of it is stuck in the post-lumber slump.
I live in the Pacific Northwest, so am thinking about installing a cistern/rain water collection center, then putting together a drip system for planter beds that we'll be installing.
Thank you!
Here’s a pseudo-schematic that I just chalked down:
These are the parts I have bought off of Amazon. If you can buy these parts from a single seller than I am sure you can save even more.
Listed prices are the prices I have paid. Currently, they could be more or less on Amazon. Some parts were bought at a Lowe's local store.
Koram Drip Irrigation 1/4" Blank Distribution Tubing Drip Watering Hose 50' Roll $8.99 1 $8.99 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013WJYKZQ/ref=oh_aui_deta...
Raindrip 381025B Heavy Duty Support Stakes, 6-Inch, 25 Per Bag $7.51 2 $15.02 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BOAKKK/ref=oh_aui_deta...
Rain Bird T22-50 Drip Irrigation 1/4" Blank Distribution Tubing, 50' Roll $6.69 1 $6.69 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FJX5DU/ref=oh_aui_deta...
Fastening Tape 0.75-inch Hook & Loop Fastening Tape 5 yard/roll - Black $5.31 1 $5.31 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AF9II6/ref=oh_aui_deta...
Koram 1/4" Blank Distribution Tubing Irrigation Gardener's Greenhouse Plant Watering Drip Kit Accessories IR-D $25.99 2 $51.98 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013JPIJG4/ref=oh_aui_deta...
Prime Wire & Cable EC502608 8-Foot 16/3 SJTW Indoor and Outdoor Extension Cord, Black $6.58 1 $6.58 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006G6A2KA/ref=oh_aui_deta...
EcoPlus 728492 Eco 100 Submersible Pump, 100GPH $11.95 1 $11.95 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007KIIQF6/ref=oh_aui_deta...
Samar 5/16-in x 20-ft PVC Clear Vinyl Tubing 1ft $2 1 $2.00 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Samar-5-16-in-x-20-ft-PVC-Clear-Vin...
Murray 2-Pack 1/4-in to 5/8-in dia Stainless Steel Full Clamps $0.71 1 $0.71 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Murray-2-Pack-1-4-in-to-5-8-in-dia-...
BrassCraft 1/2-in x 3/8-in Threaded Adapter Bushing Fitting $3.98 1 $3.98 https://www.lowes.com/pd/BrassCraft-1-2-in-x-3-8-in-Threaded...
BrassCraft 3/8-in x 3/8-in Barbed Barb x MIP Adapter Fitting $3.78 1 $3.78 https://www.lowes.com/pd/BrassCraft-3-8-in-x-3-8-in-Barbed-B...
TP-LINK Wi-Fi Smart Plug, Works with Amazon Echo, Turn On/Off Your Electronics From Anywhere (HS100) $29.99 1 $29.99 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0178IC734/ref=oh_aui_deta...
Aquarium 8Way Air Flow Splitter Lever Control Valve 3/8 Inch Tube Dia $11.76 1 $11.76 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W136G8E/ref=oh_aui_deta...
MoonCity 3-in-1 Soil Moisture, Light and pH / acidity Meter Plant Tester,Good for Gardener or planter both indoor and outdoors (No Battery needed) $12.99 1 $12.99 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017GQ9VVY/ref=od_aui_deta...
30 gallons plastic container from home depot $20 1 $20.00
Total $191.73
The main problems our rural customers faced were much more basic in nature and cannot be solved by a $60k farming kit: uncontrollable and sometimes devastating wet/dry seasonal cycles that could decimate an entire crop, making financial planning very difficult. Subsequently many of our customers lived day-to-day off whatever they sold their produce for at the market, making securing loans/financing to invest in capital (more land, equipment, livestock) impossible.
At one of the farms we visited, I noticed a half-built brick house next to the main family house. The farm owner explained that they were building a second home, but that they had to do it literally "brick-by-brick", purchasing a few bricks with extra income when they could afford to buy them. He explained this investment in bricks was their form of saving for the future: the small amounts of extra money would get spent otherwise on food or other necessities rather than put into a bank account or stashed under a mattress.
Other basic problems included a relatively high marginal cost of transporting goods to market and little access to market price data. No agricultural education info. Communal access to heavy farming machinery (graters, plows, etc.) with no accountability for these devices (they end up breaking and nobody wants to pay to fix them). Unreliable electric grid, and no chance the cellular service would be reliable/affordable enough to get an IoT system up and running on a small farm, even if the farmers did have time left over after planting, harvesting, and processing their crops, and looking after their families. Everything is harder and more manual when you lack scale, and you can't order a replacement solar panel/battery/raspberry pi off amazon.
Since the goal of our project was to get the grater into the hands of as many cassava-grating women as possible, at marginally-above-cost, we decided to sell into restaurants and explore other cash-rich markets to cross-subsidize sales to small acreage farmers. We also wanted to sell direct, or close-to-direct (at least in the beginning) to build a relationship with our customers, get to know them, get feedback on the products, and spread news of the product thru word of mouth.
That said, maybe we should have looked to sell our graters to governments/NGOs so we could have scaled up faster.
[1] http://www.olin.edu/academics/experience/engineering-capston...
"In places such as rural India, small-scale farmers struggle to meet the challenges of fierce global competition, increasing costs of farm inputs, water shortages, and new diseases and pests brought on by a changing climate. To deal with these challenges, information has become a critical input to farming operations: faced with rapidly changing conditions, farmers need market information, timely technical advice, and alerts on new and improved techniques. There are currently few sources for reliable, timely knowledge. Television and radio have achieved remarkable penetration in rural areas and stand as an effective means of information dissemination. However, without a platform to discuss, debate, and relate personal experience, information is not actionable.
Social media - email, blogs, wikis, forums, and social networks - has revolutionized how people learn and share expertise on the web, but the Internet and its associated access technologies (broadband connectivity, PCs) are out of reach for much of rural India. Even if Internet-connected PCs were available, widespread usage is constrained by language and literacy barriers. But while computers are unaffordable or unfamiliar to rural communities, mobile phones are not.
Avaaj Otalo is a service for farmers to access relevant and timely agricultural information over the phone. This service was designed in the summer of 2008 as a collaboration between UC Berkeley School of Information, Stanford HCI Group, IBM India Research Laboratory and Development Support Center (DSC), an NGO in Gujarat, India.
By dialing a phone number and navigating through simple audio prompts, farmers can record, browse, and respond to agriculturual questions and answers. In addition to the Q&A forum, the service includes an announcements board of headline-like snippets updated regularly by DSC staff, and a radio archive to listen to past episodes of DSC's popular weekly radio program."
Avaaj Otalo led to the founding of Awaaz.De (literally, "give voice"), a company in India that provides a hosted solution for deploying voice-based social media.
We spent some time with the best and the brightest Ghanaian college students at Ashesi University [1], many of whom were middle/upper class and set on entering business and politics after graduation. Some discussed practical solutions to the problem, such as farmer co-ops. But all were fed up with the corruption and unstable governance of the country - which is actually extremely stable compared to Nigeria, Cameroon, Chad (Boko Haram). I heard that word 20 times during the half a day we spent with them - corruption this, corruption that. I left with the feeling that the current government and previous generations had let these students down, but that they were determined not to repeat those mistakes.
We also met the CEO and founder of the University, Patrick Awuah, who studied at Swarthmore in 1985 on a full scholarship and went on to work at Microsoft for 8 years as a software engineer and manager. He firmly believes in instilling ethics and self-reliance through education is the way forward for the country, and indeed the entire continent: "If you come back in 30 years, universities will be competing for the best and brightest students. I hope that universities will also be competing on things such as whose students are the most ethical. If that happens, it will change the continent."
I used to believe that religion was a crucial and effective way of passing an ethical code from one generation to the next. But every Ghanaian I met was either Christian or Muslim, and some even expressed concern for my soul when I said I wasn't religious. All taxi drivers would say a prayer and touch their jesus piece hanging from the rear view mirror before every journey (very disconcerting). I also spent some time in Afghanistan, where during the month of Ramadan, I and the other expats had to drink water out of sight in the bathroom at work when we were thirsty so as not to offend practicing muslims, and the entire country shut down after 2pm every day.
Yet despite hugely religious populations, both of these countries experience high levels of corruption, which I think isn't worse than the corruption that occurs in the US, it's just more visible - there's not enough to go around so favor currying/bribes/tribalism is more apparent than it is in wealthier nations where we've developed discrete ways of channeling and accumulating wealth. Corruption in poorer countries is very "in your face" - bribes to the police or politicians, kidnapping, torture, murder.
I'm not sure how it happened, but we were able to build better infrastructure in the US over the past 150 years - both physical (power, water, transportation, internet) and social (checks and balances, constitution, BOR, legal system, decently-managed welfare system). There was a lot of prosperity to go around, after WWII ended the great depression at least.
I suspect it had a lot to do with our financial successes following WWII and the unprecedented technological progress over the past century that allowed the majority of people in the US to prosper. I think our strong capitalist roots also helped, as we moved from an agriculture -> industrial -> services based economy (not a value judgment), while much of Africa was subjected to colonization and many of its resources, both material and human capital, were sent elsewhere. We corporatized and scaled up our agricultural sector, which has its pros (less back breaking labor, a lot more food) and cons (blander, genetically-weaker crops, danger of oligopoly). I think Mr. Awuah's comment is interesting because in 30 years, the best and the brightest Ghanaians may feel compelled to return home and improve life for their fellow Ghanaians, the same way he did after studying and working abroad.
In summary I believe more forward-thinking universities like Ashesi and more leaders like Patrick Awuah need to step forward to help instill a love for ethics, altruism, and the feeling of eating hard-earned bread after a long day of work in bright young students. This will address the core of the problem of the back-breaking labor needed for subsistence farming, but will take a long time. Until then we can chip away at edge problems, like cassava grating, and as another commenter pointed out, information access through smart phones.
This is all conjecture though, and I'm not big on either African or US history, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
[1] In 2012, the university was ranked by PwC as the seventh most respected organisation in Ghana, becoming the first university to make the list. Ashesi's President, Dr. Patrick Awuah, was also ranked the 4th Most Respected CEO in Ghana. In 2015, Africa.com again named Ashesi among its list of top 10 African Universities (excluding South Africa). (From > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashesi_University)
I suspect what you might be seeing is moral licensing. I was first introduced to this as a discrete concept in Malcolm Gladwell's podcast Revisionist History (episode 1). Interestingly, he predicted that because of it Hillary Clinton would suffer quite harsh criticism if she were to be elected (prior to the election). Listening to it for the first time after the election I couldn't help but think he was right in general but quite off about how it would be expressed. We had just elected the first black president, after all...
Can you explain yourself more? In your opinion: Is the US succeeding despite the corruption or is it the difference in the type of corruption that is holding Ghana back?
Also thank you for your comment, very interesting and refreshing!
The last sentence in the article is quite shocking, though unattributed:
> By 1989, Hungary's total annual agricultural output was larger than that of France.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_Hungary
They would start with bamboo stakes, woven bamboo mats and sheets of black PVC plastic to construct temporary walls and and claim squatting rights on the land. Then they would slowly buy bricks and stack them up to supplement the walls.
Eventually they would buy cement to construct proper walls and proper roofing materials (the black PVC sheeting was used as a roof until then)
In the long term, they might repeat the process and start on a second story.
It should come with some tarps and compost at least. It appears to have a nursery, so potting soil and nursery containers hopefully come with it too. I mean all this stuff is cheap, but if they're going to deploy a shipping container, might as well put some of the obvious stuff in it.
I suspect part of the reason they're going high-tech with all the IoT devices is so that they can sell a lot of these domestically for profit, and thereby subsidize the ones they send overseas. Not necessarily a bad idea. And if they can get the owners/users to form an online community and capture some learning, the more the better!
So this is basically enterprise sales. "Turnkey solution". Sure it could be assembled cheaper but it's also a lot easier to fundraise for such a turnkey solution because it's easier to imagine a shipping container that turns into a farm. Your donation will go to one of these boxes which we'll set up in this African neighborhood...etc.
I seriously doubt that. $50k for what appears to basically be 2 acres of irrigation equipment and a solar-powered raspberry pi is absurd.
It also looks like they've so far deployed exactly 1 of these setups in the real world and haven't even really started producing units for sale. Right now this venture is a complete pipe dream and feels awfully out of touch.
And this is why I don't like those Gov (capital G intentional) programs. The scamsters are the best at exploiting them.
That's how you end up with things like this: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/free-golf-cart-but-call-it-a-low...
We have a fringe benefits tax, which applies if you drive company vehicles for personal use (since you are gaining something by not having to use your own vehicle).
This tax doesn't apply to pickup trucks with business markings of a certain size (and I think they have to be on the side?) that are permanently affixed (so no magnetic stickers).
The result is that there's quite a few companies with Toyota Hiluxes and other trucks that don't actually need trucks at all, since they're a service company that has literally nothing to haul.
I think that pickup trucks depreciate differently as well, with tax benefits to using them over a sedan.
1) Government identifies some area that needs focus, usually so they can say they're doing something.
2) A fund is created with whatever the government thinks is enough to sound like they're doing something.
3) Request for proposals on how to spend the money within said area is sent out.
4) Interested parties figure out how to get their hands on the money in the fund.
Examples of who will apply:
a) Existing companies who try to spin something they already have into something that can give them free money for whatever they were already doing.
b) Scammers who have no intention of doing anything of value and simply try to do the minimum to say they tried (like some Kickstarter scams).
In best cases the winners are picked based on superficial evaluation of who lives up the criteria and who can bullshit most on paperwork. In worst case winners are picked based on who can provide the best kickbacks, ranging from just professional relations or dinners to actual kickbacks.
These guys don't seem to qualify for this and fall into standard NGO scam, as the wifi/computers/etc in a farm that is destined for the 3rd world just seems to be there to generate buzz and justify their outrageous price tag. It seems like another box of stuff that will break in a year that gets dumped on the third world.
In every one of those steps, people usually have good intentions.
But the same thing happens anyhow.
There is money, managed by people who don't know how to create value.
> We have a three-part training program that comes with the box. One: Covering sustainable farming, making sure everyone knows a little bit in terms of crop rotation, and composting, and intercropping. Two: Covering technology use and maintenance, making sure that the individuals know how to maintain and troubleshoot all of the components of the farm. Three: Farming as an enterprise, making sure that there is a market-based approach to farming.
It's not just 2 acres of irrigation equipment and a solar-powered raspberry pi. There's at least initial support to help improve odds of success.
Not saying that bumps to $50,000 in value in material terms. Just pointing out you don't just get a box dropped off on your driveway.
Sounds like a great use of money to me...
So what you're saying is they posted it to the right forum? Not making fun of hacker news, but it is literally a forum for not-yet-validated startup ideas.
I'd bet that this one is in that category too.
https://fieldnotesbrand.com/products/expedition
They are pocket sized, "plastic paper" water and dirt proof field notebooks. And a stack of pencils to go with them.
Because really, someone running a two-acre farm in some developing country has enough time to make manual adjustments to the irrigation system, manual notes of minutiae etc. They will be manually going through the fields to pick weeds, inspect crops etc. anyway.
First, consider using f2fs instead of ext4 with a nice big card (and get a good one).
Next, attempt to disable all of the unnecessary logging and writes to the SD. Either send them to a server, write them to a ramdisk or even consider mounting the partition in read-only mode. This will drastically increase your duty cycle.
Finally, follow proper system shutdown procedures.
Do all of that (bonus points for putting heatsinks on your chips) and the Pi becomes rock-solid or something like it. Hint: it's not the Pi that fails, it's the SD card.
Just stop. There is a reason why companies like GoPro (which abusively write cards to death) bless only certain products (the top of their list being modern generations of Sandisk Extreme and Extreme Plus, Samsung Pro and Pro Plus, and Lexar Pro).
In this case, they also make industrial SDs that survive unusually high and low temperatures, which given the nature of this specific context, is worth looking into (although expensive and of low capacity).
I've had a couple of cards like that before, but after reading an article about fake SD cards a while ago, I test every new SD card and flash drive I get to make sure it's to advertised capacity so I haven't been stung.
As someone who has some perspective on the conditions of the purported customer for this they are so out of touch it is ridiculous and.
There were the very same kind of guys proposing the aquaponic version of a farm container for 20k€. I made a 2-minute napkin calculation, keeping the ridiculously high advertised yield for the whole duration, assuming no other starting cost (which is not true), assuming not any running cost (which is of course far from true), assuming not incident at all, assuming no opportunity cost, assuming a relatively high equivalent price of the vegetables.
So with all those positive assumptions, it would take 13 years to just break even. If you factor in that not everything is going to be so perfect and that, perfect or not, there are needed running costs, you can easily push that date back to, I don't know, 20 or 30 years.
All this point, your original installation isn't worth a penny any more and you can re-new it.
You haven't saved a penny. And what you have been eating for 20 years: indoor off-ground vegetables that taste no better than the industrially produced vegetables.
But yeah, it was two 25-year old city-dweller ex-business-school-students who claim they know things coz granpda was a farmer and they once went to his farm when they were 12, and they have an uncle they visit a week a year who has a garden.
For comparison, see this article in Modern Farmer.[1] This guy has revenue of about $100K per acre and has books and tools on how to replicate his farming techniques. He's working on a turnkey small farming package, and has a track record of making small farms work.
Curtis Stone also has a "do what I do and you can be successful" book: http://theurbanfarmer.co/
It was a fascinating interview -- very eloquent and practical. I hope to take a longer look, myself.
This takes a lot of waiting for the plants to die and a lot of money for the compost, but it should produce better results in the long run.
Yeah I can imagine at least having a truck to cart away all those rocks would be pretty handy. But once you're established you won't have to do it again, right? Could just rent it when you need it.
People don't generally believe me when I say this, but I've made this point often: for self-sufficiency and/or small scale farming like the GP is proposing, you need a hectare (2 acres) to feed a family year-round. The reason people don't want to believe this is because it shows that it's impossible to do this sort of farming at scale, because there simply isn't enough land to feed everybody this way. So we need industrial scale farming today to produce the food people want in the quantities we need it.
I say this as someone with a 1 hectare experimental alternative agriculture plot; it's not that I don't want better, more sustainable agriculture systems. It's just that the 'solutions' being proposed are wildly insufficient, and I'm not talking double digit percentages, but orders of magnitude. How do we fix it - I don't know. But I do (by now) recognize snake oil and sophistry when I see it.
There's an excellent article that champions the calories-per-acre metric by WP: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/in-defense-of-...
In the calorie department, corn is king [..] corn averages roughly 15 million calories per acre [..] wheat comes in at about 4 million calories per acre, soy at 6 million. Rice is also very high-yielding, at 11 million, and potatoes are one of the few crops that can rival corn: They also yield about 15 million [..] Broccoli yields about 2.5 million calories per acre, and spinach is under 2 million
And like was mentioned by dghughes, rotation is important. From about the middle ages to the early 20th century, European farmers practiced the three-crop rotation scheme. Winter wheat or rye in one field, peas, lentils or beans in a second, and the third would be "resting". It got replaced in Britain and Belgium with the four-crop rotation plan, which produced more calories.
Here's what I think I'd grow:
Potatoes - Incredibly easy to grow. Produces a ton of food. Can be grown in trash cans on otherwise unusable land. Very versatile and useful in so many cuisines. If I had to place my bets on one staple crop, it's potatoes.
Green beans (Blue Lake variety or similar) - Also very easy to grow. You trellis them and they don't take up a lot of ground space. Incredibly bountiful crop--you'll have trash bags full from 50 sq ft of beans. Puts nutrients back in the soil--very good crop to rotate.
Kale - Nutritious, versatile crop. Easy to grow.
Tomatoes - Nutritious and so easy to grow. Can be grown vertically in raised pots for more space efficiency.
Tomatillos - Tasty, good for sauces. These grow as voraciously as the green beans.
Pumpkins, squashes, etc. - These are wandering vines so you can plant them in good soil on the edge of unusable land and let them grow out over the areas that you couldn't plant in.
Various lettuces - Not easy to grow--they're susceptible to pests and they bolt as soon as the weather gets too warm--but they grow fast and if your family likes salad, you'll eat a lot of them.
The potatoes, on the other hand, he grows by the bucket in piles of hay thrown into old, bald tires. I suspect the damned things will grow in anything that's been near a nutrient.
Your children will see potatoes grow live, and you can eat them with them. Fun thing to do, very easy, and works so well.
For soil, just some normal soil you can dig out anywhere is enough, but you can also buy pre-fertilized soil if you wish (as said, the potatoes would even grow in garbage cans)
I lost my entire crop to the Colorado Potato Beetle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_potato_beetle in 2016.
Note: "However, many chemicals are often unsuccessful when used against this pest because of the beetle's ability to rapidly develop insecticide resistance."
If that was my staple crop, I'd be dead of starvation right about now.
Of course the idea is not to hate on potato as a crop but rather to stress the importance of genetic diversity in one's food supply.
I would add a bit of barley/oat but that's more work than the rest.
If you're after some flavour, I'd also add onions and celery, which I guess go in normal soil with the cabbage and potatoes, and also carrots, which will want sandy soil. There's a good reason these three veggies together form the basis of lots of French and Italian cooking.
1) a container
2) a tin shed leaning on it on one side
3) a small plastic? nursery/seeding house on the other side
4) a 3 Kwh solar plant (including batteries, etc.)
5) a bunch of pumps (and I presume pipes) for drip irrigation
6) web connectivity
7) possibly a bunch of hand farming tools
do not sum up to costs that justify the US$ 50,000/60,000 sell price, maybe I am missing something very relevant?
And - though admittedly I am not an agriculture expert - the 150 people feeding out of 1 hectare sounds like an extremely tall story to me, I would think more at around 10/15 people per acre (in a proper, fertile piece of land with good climate).
1) Shipping Container - ~$2,000
2) Tin Shed - Maybe another ~$1,000
3) Hoop Greenhouse - ~$400 [1]
4) 3Kwh Solar Plant with Batteries - ~$8,500 [2]
5) 2 Acre Drip Irrigation System - ~$3,000 [3]
6) WiFi Access - $1,000 (I have no idea what hardware/capabilities they're delivering here, but it seems like that's a safe number)
7) A Bunch of Hand Farming Tools - $1,000 (Another guesstimate)
8) A 1,000 gallon water storage tank - ~$700 [4]
So that takes us to about $17,600. Let's add another $5,000 for preparation, packaging, research and educational materials. Let's add another $5,000 for stuff that's more expensive than my guesstimates, and remove nothing for the article's claimed efficiencies that makes this so much more cost-effective than buying a la carte.
That still only puts us at $28,000, so either there's something I'm totally missing here, or this is total BS.
[1] http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/16-foot-wide-cold... [2] http://www.bimblesolar.com/3kwcomplete-sunny-island [3] https://www.berryhilldrip.com/Kit-Pro-2-This-Complete-Kit-wi... [4] http://www.plastic-mart.com/category/9/plastic-water-tanks
Also, where'd would I get the water for that water tank?
Actually, they do mention "sensors" - I wonder if that includes anything beyond the weather station?
Excellent, I roughly computed 26,000 US$ (actually 25,000 Euros), I was lower on the connectivity and on the solar plant and missed the water tank, but I will gladly accept a 10% increase, let's call it rounding.
Still we are around 100% margin, which should mean that the "manual" and "lessons" must be overpriced.
And they are doing this in San Francisco, which would greatly up the costs of everything vs doing it pretty much anywhere else. If they aren't careful with shipping everything to them that can easily eat $5k or more (a shipping container can cost more to move than the cost of the container itself).
WHICH refrigeration system?
I cannot find any mention of it: "Every unit comes equipped with a renewable power system, internet connectivity, basic farm tools, micro-drip irrigation system and water pump that can be adapted to fit either a groundwell or municipal water supply.
Every Farm from a Box unit can be customized with optional components including sensors, water purification units, and even remote monitioring technology."
And it would IMHO have merited an icon in the picture here:
AFAICU the US$ 50,000/60,000 is for the "current" thing, not for the "new" one.
(I am a small farmer with a side job in tech.)
"we’re starting with the 20-foot model that serves two acres"
So you make something that's ostensibly targeted at poor rural villagers, and sell it to some deep-pocketed do-gooder entity at a huge markup.
I can pack in all the required farming equipment needed for a 2 acre land in under $20,000 in India (including a good tractor!). And I get to chose what I want.
$50,000-$60,000 is a STEEP price tag to suggest to African farmers I assume! And then there would be a maintenance costs.
These are just two of the field tested equipments that work (with spare parts available throught the Indian market at least) and are available with many options - https://www.mahindratractor.com/ http://www.jains.com/irrigation/drip%20irrigation%20system.h...
Why would anyone want to lose a piece of their farm land to keep a container and also pay for it!
And indeed the planning board can make an exception:
A private road, but as with Class VI roads, only if the governing body, after consulting with the planning board has adopted a policy allowing building on that particular private road, or portion thereof, and then only if the owner has recorded a notice in the registry of deeds acknowledging that the town is not liable for maintenance...
So I would think that a farmer that wants to build a storage shed on the far side of his field would be able to get a permit as long as it's accessible by some private road (even a class VI dirt road)
Secondly, the project is not being marketed for specifically for under-developed countries. In the linked article they do mention their experience in Kenya and that one of their target markets are governments to support development projects or refugee camps. But they also state that they are targeting individuals in the US. Also their website makes it clear that under-developed countries are not the major focus.
This is Africa, dude.
Tractor Backhoe Rototiller Auger Fencing
First necessity: water. Where will you get it from? They include a pump. That's nice. How will you dig the hole to get down to the water in order to pump it?
How will you dig the holes for your fence posts? Yes you can use a manual post-hole digger. That's what I did. I don't recommend it. Does the box include posts and wire?
How will you compost? I have several animals that generate a lot of manure. The easiest way to turn it is with a rototiller--preferrably connected to the PTO on the tractor because the manure pile is very large. It would take a day to turn it with a walk-behind tiller. It would take one day a week to collect the new manure by hand without a box scraper on a tractor.
Ever have to bury livestock? You need a deep hole. Anything too shallow attracts predators. I've buried a few by hand. I don't recommend it.
So, a little 25 hp tractor with a 3-pt PTO and accessories including auger, tiller, box scraper, backhoe, and front-end bucket is almost mandatory unless you have a lot of free labor. And this is supposed to be sustainable off-grid, so that needs to be electric. See the Global Village Construction Set (http://opensourceecology.org/gvcs/).
1. Most people in undeveloped countries know how to farm, but just lack specific necessities.
2. Unless you have knowledge of these electronic components, how would you ever fix them if they broke? That isn't very sustainable..
3. What is the point if you have Amazon? Instead of a large container, FedEx drop's it off.
in other word's, they are attempting to create a business where there is no need.
As 99% of startups :-)
[1] http://unitedexplanations.org/english/2012/03/22/the-story-o...
There's a sentence that asks more questions than it answers.
Liberal philosophy roughly means freedom and same rights to everyone, including very bad persons, in exchange to strict execution of written laws. So to be truly pro-west, person must advocate same right to everyone, including e.g. gays, and strong independent court for everyone, including e.g. top leaders and officials, which will adhere to written laws religiously. He also must fight to death with bribes and bribers.
Are you sure you labeling correct person with "pro-west" label?
PS.
It's looks like offtopic here. Should I delete this message?
By your metric, even large parts of the "west" and United States aren't "pro-west". Sadly.
Liberal philosophy is luxury. NATO allowed to liberal countries to rise. Without NATO, a war with a strong neighborhood will quickly kick out any liberal minds from heads of people of a west country.
Liberal philosophy can be represented in mathematical logic by simple algorithm in a simple game. Game rules: player can make bad(+1,-1), e.g. war, neutral (0,0) or good (+1,+1), e.g. cooperation, moves. Optimal strategy: do a single good move to player neighborhood(s) and then copy their behavior, AKA "pay it forward". It's proven that this algorithm is optimal for growth when all players have equal size and power. For game with unequal players or when group dynamic is allowed (e.g alliances), it's good (not an optimal, because group dynamic is Turing complete, so it's impossible to prove that an algorithm is optimal) only for biggest and most powerful players, otherwise liberal algorithm will make the player to be the most valuable target very quickly. So, to win as liberal, player must be big and powerful, like USA, or be member of large defense alliance, like NATO. If you are liberal and you are nor USA nor in NATO, you are target (e.g. Kuwait - Iraq, Taiwan - China) and your life will be short, unless you will convert your country to utilitarian dictatorship or will create a mix of two, like in Israel, which is unstable.
Thank you.
I bought 1 mile of drip tape for $150 off of https://www.berryhilldrip.com
Solar panels are a cheap commodity. There are charge controllers which will only turn on the DC if you're over a certain voltage for the pump.
Again, I love the idea, but its way off on execution at this point.
But note that drip tape is incompatible with tractor-based agriculture and will only be used with perennial or labor intensive annual crops.
Then they throw the tape away at the end of the season.
Commercial strawberry growers use this quite often.
But yes, to your point, high dollar crops.
But, the base idea was that a rising tide lifts all ships, and that by increasing efficiency you could help to kickstart the economic development in an area that otherwise would remain stagnant.
http://www.ecowatch.com/solar-powered-farm-from-a-box-everyt...
So in two years, they're still just at a single prototype installation? This almost sounds like it's just a back end for the founder's other ambitions, whatever they might be. A quick search of the name shows her as a speaker at some women's forums, (with the typical theme of "empowering others" and other social buzzwords) SXSW, and pics of her at Burning Man.
I think the concept is nice, but totally unaffordable for the third world nations that they say they want to serve. It's also not that people in the middle east/etc don't know how to farm. They often times just lack modern farming equipment. Not sure if a 'farm in a box' solution is what they actually need.
If framework is bench marked, or if people create a great CSS suite and animations, you get (mostly) constructive criticism.
A company is actually doing something about bigger issues which could positively affect the lives of many people in a sustainable way ... and we get this.
I'm not saying to turn off our skepticism and critical thinking, but at least recognize the effort and the potential of such an idea. It might introduce people who never though of farming to a whole new way of life.
It's not VR, or a new JS framework, but it has a lot of potential.(BTW I am a developer, and am not affiliated in any way with them).
Following your fact finding quest you could then post a detailed blog about your analysis for other HN'ers to read. I would be glad to read such a review with facts and figures explaining objectively what is wrong (or right!) about the proposed product.
Keep us posted!
This product wouldn't be all that useful. The hard part of running a farm is knowing the local growing conditions, crops which work in these conditions, and then, the harrowing amount of work involved in getting the thing productive.
Drip irrigation is cool once set up, but it's not durable and you need to replace it frequently as it gets damaged, breaks down due to weather, some animal chews it, whatever. Their solar driven pump is indeed a labor saving device, but it's a low power low volume pump useful for drip irrigation. I can guarantee you that nobody's going to be supplying affordable drip irrigation gear in a poor area. However, given a well, a powerful irrigation pump would be a huge help, particularly if it can move enough volume to fill traditional irrigation ditches for the times drip tubing is unattainable.
The IoT metrics stuff isn't very useful. The sort of person who farms in the places targeted by this isn't very tech savvy, and what's more important than temperature and water delivery statistics is walking the field and inspecting for weeds and pests.
The shipping container could make a usable shed, but so would a traditional shed, usually made from scrounged, cheap, local materials.
If you want to help poor farmers, I would suggest the following - A powerful irrigation pump, after helping to drill a well, solar driven is cool. - A small ride-on type tractor built to be dead simple to fix and reliable with plowing, seeding, and harvesting attachments. This is the major work of running a farm. Bonus points if this thing doesn't require gasoline, but that would be prohibitively expensive in terms of solar and batteries, since duty cycle would be very high. - Some kind of good, watertight and pest resistant grain storage containers, enough to store a few tons. - A bunch of lessons in the local language teaching people how to maximize food production from minimal resources in a given part of the world. What crops, how to plant, weed, and harvest them, how to store the harvest. - A bunch of fertilizer and pesticide. This will run out one day, so perhaps lessons on how to farm without it, but that drops production to like 1/4 of what's possible for a given unit of land. Modern high density farming requires a permanent supply of modern chemicals.
Now, A farm in a box is a cool idea, and the market may be affluent hobbyists, but this won't fix food shortage problems because the gear in it isn't particularly useful to a small farm, but also because food shortage problems are primarily political.
Talking about farming on a developer website is like demoing salon tools to a group of plumbers. You may get opinions, but they probably won't be the most informed or helpful.
Except, they're not, and some basic knowledge means their claims don't pass the sniff test. Hence the nalegativity, which seems warranted.
Who hasn't thought of farming at some point? As a farmer myself, all I see is people falling over each other for a chance to do it.
The problem is that by the properties of supply and demand, that intense interest results in high costs and small profits, so in the end only a relative few can make it work.
Not to mention that you kill the local suppliers of agricultural equipment.
And the price tag? Agricultural land is VERY cheap. You can buy an acre of the most expensive prime Corn Belt land for under $6000 [Edit: in some states this number is actually around $10k], while in emerging markets good land can go for as low as as few hundred dollars per acre.
So a single container that can be used to farm two acres of land, could be used to buy 10 acres of the best land in the US, or 200 acres of land (or more) in emerging markets. Or you could hire 20 farm workers for 4 years in India.
It is clear that the target is well-intended governments, who will write big checks, and leave the units rotting in some depot somewhere as they figure out what to do with it, draining resources which could be used in actual development (roads, infrastructure, rural insurance & credit).
San Francisco & Silicon Valley, please go back to solving First World problems.
In my limited experience with mushrooms I almost instantly went from too much wood and sawdust to know what to do with to the opposite. Even in the field of mushrooms there are the wood varieties and the animal waste compost varieties. And I suppose the psychedelic varieties. I grew my own shiitake with some modest success. The people who burn their scrap woodworking wood are on to something in that a fire turns scrap into heat with 100% success which is a much higher success rate than I experienced with mushrooms.
Surely a veg garden kit would look wildly different than a grain farm kit. Ditto orchards and berries. Then you get into cash crops, I can't live off peppers directly but I can certainly grow a lot of them, and I can trade.
There is an aspect of specialization that I've fooled around with most of the above or have a family member who did, but my green thumb is container-style-garden pepper production and given a marginally functional economic system I'd be better off maxing out my pepper production, selling almost all of it, and buying a nice balanced diet, than trying to grow my own "everything".
In a grid-up normalcy situation my mint production is economically worthless, but in grid-down crash situation I suspect my mint would be quite valuable for flavoring. Grid down in USA is unlikely but has Ethiopia been grid up at any time since the 60s? Perhaps now? If so good, for them. But the point remains that not all of the world is booted up in the world economy and for areas that are not, some weird stuff like sunflower oil probably would sell pretty well until the world economy boots up again in that country. It might not matter if you can't get a shipping crate delivered intact to a down-grid situation country.
As a person who lives in a farming area this seems like putting a computer and a box of red bull in a box and labeling it "computer programmer kit".
I'm not a farmer but things like crop rotation, regulations, WHIMIS (pesticides/herbicides), dangers such as the PTO on the tractor and other farm dangers all needed training. You see at least once per year some farm hand injured by crushing or falling there are so many dangers.
Absolutely true. I do think though that such a box would be coming with a big manual/e-learning/video course to complete the hardware.
So it's more like they give you a computer, a box of redbull, and a couple books on putting together a MEAN stack. I think it's a good start for someone who wants to get their feet wet.
Learning to grow food has been a gradual process for me, learning what works for my soil and my climate. I can't imagine trying to start with a Conex full of equipment and two acres to farm, unless you have a local farmer there to help you along. It's so much easier to start small, a few hundred square feet, and to get the advice of a local gardening club or garden store when it comes to choosing what to plant.
In other words, it's probably not for when I get pissed off at my job and decide to move into my parents' house and work their two acres in Texas with no idea of what I'm doing.
I didn't mean to sound dismissive but I pictured some random person ordering a farm kit off Amazon.
We all need to eat but I think farming is seen as a nothing job by many people in urban areas.
So I could sign up, go on there and decide what to plant and how to do it from that kind of site. Maybe I heard of this on a This Week In Startups podcast?
Edit: I've found it. It's called Farmer's Business Network [1] and I did indeed hear about it on a This Week in Startups podcast [2].
[1] https://www.farmersbusinessnetwork.com/ [2] http://thisweekinstartups.com/amol-deshpande-fbn/
For example, here's Oregon State University's page for small farms: http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/farms
I've long considered a similar "in a [shipping container] box" for fast-start retail establishments. Have access to retail space? have just days/hours to put up a fast-food shop? won't be perfect, but the box contains what you need to get a functioning restaurant delivered & running in hours. Likewise I can appreciate an "in a box" for a farm; get some cheap land and get what you need to reach harvest before snowfall.
I understand the idea of becoming self sufficient. It's the idea of spending $50,000 to make it happen because it suddenly became urgent that I think is not very realistic.
(of course 10 man-years of pasta is not an exciting nutritional adventure. I'd argue it's far more pragmatic than hoping you figure out how to farm in 8 weeks...)
If you have $5K of easily movable commodity dollars, gold, pasta, in your basement, you're of value in another way, and you're probably not going to like that outcome.
The post I initially responded to wasn't about self sufficiency, it was about buying it in a box and making it work in 1 season. I replied about the making it work in 1 season not being a particularly likely thing. Hence buying an easily movable commodity probably being a better use of the money, even if you aren't a cold blooded crack shot.
If in the long run you're a net positive to the neighbors you'll be "in" and life will be very good. Everyone loves the village blacksmith or brewer or fellow farmer or whatever.
On the other hand if you don't bring something to the table or just have a shopping bag of temporary loot then life will be much harder without the community.
Or is it something like 10 years of practice that is relevant?
I could see that being pretty efficient, since the trainers would know exactly what tools and materials trainees will have on hand to work with, which should make it possible to create generalized training systems rather than having to build up a new curriculum for each trainee they work with.
While such "in-a-box" products are obviously limited & biased, they are a tremendously useful starting point for people who want to begin an endeavor but don't know where to start, don't want to get bogged down in selecting basic tools/services they don't yet understand, and don't yet know even the "well anyone who knows anything about XYZ knows you need at least a ABC and a PDQ" stuff.
Of course the contents are imperfect. BUT IT'S A START. Give someone what they need for a sensible starting point, then they can soon learn what they need to head in the direction they decide to go (after they know enough to understand what the options really are).
* 30 HP tractor - $14k
* brushhog, back blade, cone spreader, log splitter - $3k
* 1,000 ft^2 greenhouse - $5k
* water to greenhouse - $5k
* haying equipment (baler, tedder, disk mower, rake) - $5.5k
* buckets, pails, tubs, lights, etc for livestock - $1k
* hoses, hand tools, etc. - $1k
* drip irrigation, raised beds, soil tests, etc. - $1k
* fencing materials - $5k
I could keep going down the list, but even just barely starting, I'm sure that the $50k number is correct.
Obviously, this package doesn't include haying equipment or chicken egg incubators or chicken feather removal machine, but I can easily imagine how you could spend $50k.
https://www.engadget.com/2006/10/18/suns-project-blackbox-da...
I can't find the original stuff anymore, the "martian picture" was actually in Sun's collateral on their website though. You can't make stuff like that up. There is a certain magic when a corporation with real money produces that kind of marketing buzz. I vaguely remember a picture of a Katrina-like situation with a black box too, cause you need processing power when the city floods and people are dying, I can't remember if that was part of the official messaging or not, maybe I just dreamed it up..
There is absolutely some appeal to full turn-key looking solutions for things that pretty clearly don't have them. It strikes me a perfect "inside the echochamber" thinking to dream up a farm in a box like this. I'd bet not everyone on the design team even has a home garden. Sometimes they day dream up a new paradigm and a lot of times it's just pretty marketing buzz. 2 acre open field farming doesn't seem like a good fit, I could see some success if this was scaled in to modular green house farming or something like that, maybe more on the gardening scale than the farming one.
New things are hard. People should still try them. Also when I was a kid my dad basically did give me a box of computer parts, sans red bull, and said have it - and I broke it. I bent pins, I had to format, when I finally got it running I upgraded it and broke it again. Eventually I figured it out and here I am.
Never mind the PTO , watch out for the hydraulics on the tractor...
Computer programmer kits like this exist and are called "bootcamps."
One of the main reasons I want to grow food though is some vegetables are not carried by my local grocery stores (I have to go to a farmer market or expensive grocery store). For example many grocery stores do not sell Japanese yams, Yuca, various peppers, or plantains (I suppose plantains would be difficult to grow).
I also would like to do it all inside as well (because I live in New England and have more inside space than outside and various other reasons). Basically a refrigerator size farming appliance that you plugin with plumbing and electricity.
The farmbot development is important, but won't be commercially viable with the current fixed rail system.
Obviously the sun is way more efficient and preferred but if you live in an area where the sun isn't exactly available that much of the year it might be worth it for some automated easy to use large indoor like closet system or cabinet particularly in more urban areas.
Green houses and hydroponics are great, but they can just as well be done on cheap land.
The biggest difficulty in food production isn't land, water, and sunlight - its management at scale.
This is why the vast majority of everyone's calories comes from large tractor managed commodity crops.
As a metaphor, the easy part of IT is ordering the servers, switches, etc. The setup takes some labor, but the real difficulty is the ongoing management.
It doesn't need to. But there's an increasing push towards looking for ways to cut the environmental effects of farming, and there transport is part of the challenge. There's also an increasing push for cutting time to market, despite traditional farms being further and further away from most consumers.
Hydroponics in urban areas is likely to converge on the mass market from two directions: Environmentalists looking for options that cut land use and transport, and up-market foodies willing to pay extra for products that are "straight from the farm two doors down" in the middle of a city.
Whether it eventually will get cost effective enough to supplant normal farms is another matter.
After experimenting with the hydroponics, vertical growing, etc. I've come to realize the best way to cut the environmental effects of farming is to make traditional boring broad acre farming restorative and regenerative. Moving farms into cities simply won't produce enough calories profitably enough to make any meaningful positive environmental impact.
Amazingly enough, there are a large number of well-educated farmers out there that are moving to no-till, alley cropping, key line design for water retention, and perennial crops.
One of the best voices for this new generation of farmers is Mark Shepard:
Maybe it never will, but we won't know without trying.
> I've come to realize the best way to cut the environmental effects of farming is to make traditional boring broad acre farming restorative and regenerative.
But none of that can fully counter the massive land use, nor does it address the increasing effects of transport necessary to handle increasingly urban populations and increasing expectations of short delivery times.
I haven't looked a ton at its performance characteristics but I would imagine it spends a lot of time sitting idle with the current plot they're maintaining.
But a similar bot that could maintain 4'x8' boxes and then roll on to the next one could be interesting. Or even one that could manage continuous line of plots of a given width, e.g. 4' wide
I' like to think it was up voted as an example of a bad idea, but I suspect not.
The idea seems to target cities, to decrease the time to market, so that they can optimize the fruits or vegetables for taste and not for conservation.
What do they mean by this? Kilowatt is not a unit of energy, but a unit of power. Does that mean they provide equipment that is rated to produce three kilowatts? I'm no farmer but that sounds like awfully little power for power-hungry farm equipment.
Its odd to me that Venezuela thought that getting rid of profits for producers would help society.
Indeed, you could consider investors and shareholders in a similar manner to workers and lenders; investors provide money and in exchange the company gives them profits.
To clarify:
Investors provide money once and in exchange the company gives them (or whomever they transfer the stock to) profits forever.
Is there any model which allows a structure for stocks to expire after a reasonable period (10-20 years but it would vary by industry).
The problem is the level of risk. With something well understood like a waterfall, there was still plenty of risk (dry years etc.; fluctuations in demand and cost; natural disasters), but it is risk that is reasonably easy to quantify within sufficient levels to insurance against part of it, and cover the rest by asking for sufficiently beneficial leasing terms to make it attractive without a permanent share.
But with a startup with a new model, the risk is extremely hard to quantify other than assuming it is high. That'll make investors demand a lot more.
Plenty of companies are funded through bank loans or other forms or debts or leases or have the financial power to demand buy-back clauses, but they're usually "boring" companies where returns are stable-ish or at least very well understood.
(that said, I did once work at a company where we partnered with a German tech company that had been built on the back of bank loans; it took an extreme level of financial discipline - the bank paid out in monthly tranches on the basis evidence they'd stuck to their very detailed plans; basically they'd put in a massive effort to de-risk a business that would normally be too risky for most banks)
Why is money going back into the company "good", but investors get the negative connotation of "siphoning" money? What is with the disdain for the people who own the company making money from it?
Like witty_username pointed out. With a non-profit there are no investors or shareholders. Not only that they will not want to, but investors are not allowed. It doesn't mean the company can't make profits, it just means no one will be taking profits from investment.
It's not good or bad, but it does mean that most of the profit goes back into the company, which is good for growth. It also means there aren't investors which are the primary source of growth for most startups. Non-profits that make profit have to do so directly though sales or donations. And profit made is mostly reinvested.
There was no good or bad judgement there, it is just a different model and some aspects of that model mean more growth and some mean less.
It also means the founders likely won't become billionaires (because the founders don't own a stake), but the company could still be worth billions -- in terms of how much money they have on hand or take in. That profit is supposed to be locked into the company for the purpose of performing the mission of the company. Which can include paying salaries to further the mission.
These are the reasons most "benefit companies" are non-profit. Trying to do good in the world so all donation (rather than investment) and profit goes toward the goal rather than investors and why I was surprised that this company is not.
Because that is exactly what's happening?
If the company produces just enough to break even, the money is distributed fairly.
But if more money is earnt, this entire surplus goes to the investors (or, in recent years, also to management).
This means that while the wages of the workers stagnate with increasing productivity, the profits of the investors go up. The worker is producing an additional vakue, but all of that goes to the capitalist.
— paraphrased from Das Kapital, by Karl Marx.
Or not sell at all: if you draw a line between for-profit and for-investment, they might not even be the former.