Comment by lobster_johnson | Hacker News Reader

Comment by lobster_johnson | Hacker News Reader

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lobster_johnson

The other manufacturers also haven't figured out how to organize their models.

As far as I can tell, Dell has just a handful of models (XPS, Precision etc.), but if you go and look at the XPS 15, for example, it's a grid of dozens of SKUs with various specs instead of just a single page with customization options. It's not even a matrix -- with models varying by CPU and RAM and disk and such, you'd expect that at least they'd arrange them visually in some kind of table. It must be a nightmare for non-technical people.

They're all like this, and it becomes hilariously complicated when the manufacturer has, like Lenovo, dozens and dozens of models, and it's impossible to understand what the difference is between them and which ones are targeting which uses. (You have to ask why they're so unfocused, too. Is it an intentional tactic?)

Asus seems to be one of the few to understand this (aside from Apple); their Zenbook site is pretty friendly and focused. Though they still insist on nonsense model names like "UX390UA".

It's not just PCs, of course. It's all consumer electronics: TVs, sound systems, what have you.

I've never been a product manager but IMO it probably goes something like this:

"The framistan line is successful but I hear from our customers that we should have some options that add [x] and drop [y], while having support for more [z]."

"We need to create a new line, a totally separate brand from framistan that has way more [x], [y] but no [z] at all. The competition has entered this space and there is clearly a market there."

They say this as often as they can, iterating over various x, y, z triples and they maximize the product line, perhaps until they hear feedback like yours.

Apple, OTOH, does whatever they want, targeting limited segments in order to keep everything simple. They lose out on lots of opportunity by restricting themselves to just parts of the market. But they also have a money tree, so it doesn't really matter.

Re: nonsense model names. As a technical consumer I much prefer these very-distinct names that change with each new release. When I read a review, it's very likely that I'm reading the right review. When I'm buying used, it's very likely that I'm getting the right product. Brands like Amazon Kindle Fire, MacBook, IMO make searching for and finding the right stuff harder. I can appreciate the elegance of a simple product name, though. Typically they're concealing the true model info under some other header, but it's usually harder to identify.

You're probably spot on. I'd like to add that this is the problem with many "Product Managers" - they aren't MANAGING the product. Their job is to take this noise (because that's what this is) and distill it down to something structured and logical. No wonder Apple makes so much money. You can hate them, but they get this (mostly)* right.

* There are rumblings by many about the mac laptop variations not being cleanly delineated.

You're probably right. But it doesn't explain why Apple is so good at this and so few other companies aren't. They must realize the confusion they're creating among consumers. Is it because they're still rooted in 80s/90s PC culture?

Nice brand names like MacBook doesn't preclude having precise model IDs, though. The MacBook range mostly has unique model names (and Apple publishes a full list [1]), for example.

As a counter-argument, an example from TVs: The same TV models are sold all over the world with different identifiers. They'll do things like tack on an "E" for European models. But it makes it really hard to find reviews, because the same Samsung model sold in the US as UN40J5200 might be UN40J5300E in Europe, and you don't necessarily know how to translate between the two identifiers (though they often have a system about what the letters and digits mean so you can decode them, kind of). You might find a review for Samsung UN40J6200 and hope that it's close enough.

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300

That's because Apple is not afraid to shut down a product that still makes money, and offer less choice to customers.

Typically when they released the iPod nano, they decided to stop the iPod mini even though some customer would have still chosen it.

> Apple is so good at this and so few other companies aren't

> Nice brand names like MacBook doesn't preclude having precise model IDs, though. The MacBook range mostly has unique model names (and Apple publishes a full list [1]), for example.

I guess the difference is that Apple doesn't list each and every configuration option as a different product, but only shows them when it's relevant: During the purchase process / checkout. While Lenovo, Dell and Co. show a collection of slightly different configurations as separate cards in what looks like a very generic e-commerce theme, Apple wants you to make decisions step by step:

- Visit central product page (iMac / iPhone / Macbook / Macbook Pro / ...)

- Follow store / purchase link

- Select one of very few base models that are distinguishable by major (!) attributes (like screen size or the good/better/best-principle)

- Adjust details (CPU, RAM, etc.) as needed. Or don't and just opt for the default base model.

This process covers 27 different product variants in a step by step checkout workflow that is easy to grasp and understand by the customer.

Apple is in a somewhat strange position. I'd argue that they are competing with Asus/Dell/etc. as a company, but their products aren't, in that you first decide between Mac/PC and only then decide on a model. Obviously not true in all cases (i. e. I love Apple to death but had to resort to a very custom desktop for some ML work). But its right often enough to make additional models a losing proposition for Apple: they'd just be competing with themselves.

the part you missed is that the money tree didn't magically appear and allow them to do that. Apple's ability to have discipline and know when to say no, sticking to the specific markets they know they can make large margins in is what created and feeds the money tree. Why make 40 lines in every variation at razor thin profits, when you can make one line at huge margins? Not sticking to that model is what's getting apple in trouble, even if every tech comment whines about how apple has done everything wrong since forever.

> It's not just PCs, of course. It's all consumer electronics

I recently bought an induction hob, and it's exactly the same.

Bosch for example have a series 4, 6 and 8 and within that, models with various configurations. At first I assumed series 8 was the best or newest, but there are low and high end models in all of the series. I looked through the manufacturers specs, and even in terms of features I couldn't see anything different between the series, only between induvidual models. Maybe the series refers to what day the 'design team' came up with it?

I tried to look at some reviews online to see what people said was the best - I live in Northern Europe and haven't yet picked up the language so looked at reviews on UK and German sites. Except the models available there aren't available here, and vice versa.

At the end of the day they are all pretty much the same (they all cook stuff), so I just went to the shop and picked one that wasn't too cheap or too expensive and looked the prettiest (Wife Approved TM).

This is so frustrating! It's not like it can't be done; System76 manages to present a really nice base-model + customisation experience, so why can't Dell?

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