Comment by tunesmith | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tunesmith | Hacker News Reader

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I graduated with a music degree and have been a professional programmer for twenty years... I have honestly never really seen programming as an art. Not in that sense. It's got some elements in common with different kinds of music, like how you choose to make it balanced and cohesive I guess, but to me it's kind of a pale shade of musical artistry.

If you're performing, it requires you to tap into some sort of "being in the moment" type of flow that is almost the opposite of deep-programming flow. You have to be aware of the present moment while also interacting with the present moment. Getting "into the zone" while programming, if applied to performing music, is a great way to lose listeners. And if you're performing with others, you'll screw up the ensemble.

If creating/writing, music requires a kind of delving-for-inspiration I almost never have to do while programming. Early 2016 I had to solve a programming problem that didn't fit any previous patterns and wasn't googleable, and I solved that in a kind of lateral-thinking flash of inspiration, so that's somewhat close, but it's still rare compared to normal programming practice... and even then, in programming those flashes are less personal.

Programming is enjoyable in the sense that it's like both solving puzzles/problems and sometimes tending a zen rock garden. You think, you solve, you clean. And to a degree, you express. I don't really think that clears the bar of artistic, but it is manifestation and it is satisfying and it is sometimes personal so that's good too.

There are multiple definitions of "art". And debates on how to define and classify "art" have been around forever. Where art thou, bro?..

The post you replied to seems to be using "art" in the very common sense like the phrase "more art than science" uses it: it's an art in that it requires some type of successful human judgment and subjectivity applied to the needs of a skill. If a fancy calculator can't give an official, right solution (or you don't have this calculator if it exists) somehow that became called an art. Technically, "art" applied to a skill or craft may be the oldest definition of the word. Obviously, these things are gray areas that involve both art and science. See Donald Trump's book "The Art of the Deal" for more info.

Just a question if you see this: Why and how would "delving for inspiration" be an art or artistry? Creativity and inspiration don't seem to be the same thing. Where does the control and art come in when delving for inspiration?

Likewise, in music you have the notes on the page (a computer can even play them). You also have accents and dynamics etc. on the page that require a higher level of subjectivity but instructions/descriptions can be written. Is there another level above that? Is there a part to performing a piece of music that can't be written? Is there a name for the unwritable part?

Sure, I guess I meant to restrict my answer mostly to art-as-music.

Your first question: I think delving is more about artistry when it's personal, perhaps when one's own answer would be different than anyone else's. It's easy to be pedantic about this point, but it being personal is on the right track for me.

As for your second, I think part of the artistry of music is intrinsically related to the human element. In other words, let's say there were two recordings of performances or even an original composition. One was composed/performed by a person who felt it as they went, and another was composed/performed by a computer program. Even though it's the same sequence of pitches and waveforms, and impossible to tell the difference from listening alone, I still see the human one as different than the computer one. And if someone says, ah, surprise we told you it was human but it's actually computer-generated, I don't think that makes any kind of deep point, it's more just a dirty trick.

Anyway, the difference between those two recordings, that's the other level above that. I can better respect the human artistry that heard those sounds internally before manifesting them, than the computer program that generated them with AI and statistics.

I always thought programming is kind of literature, because you write in language for machines and humans at the same time ie. mix of logic and inspiration.

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