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Comment by sergers | Hacker News Reader

My mom has benefited from cannabis to help treat chrohns. While nothing has cured, it's been the most effective with no known side effects. Plus it's cheaper than the meds she has been buying for years (spending out of pocket upwards $10k a year with $500 a pill just for flare ups even with medicare in Canada).

She has been in hell for 30 years. They wanted to remove her small intestine ~20 years ago and she didn't want to make that sacrifice and lived with the pain.

Nothing honestly helped long term till I convinced her to try cannabis 3 years ago that so far has been more effective.

She is now on low daily dose with no flare-ups in atleast a year.

From personal experience as a 15 year recreational user and 10 years actual therapy/medicinal use:For chronic pain and intestinal issues it works wonders, but it's not any immediate relief with severe pain.

That may change with higher concentrations and improvements in delivery methods.

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Crohn's Disease is one of those things where, if you do not suffer from it personally, you have absolutely no business telling someone who does what they may or may not do to treat it - or rather its symptoms. I have a friend with Crohn's, and based on his reserved description (not far past PG-13) as to what he goes through on a daily basis, I would not DARE tell him that he cannot use marijuana, opioids, or anything else. I don't care what he needs to help him get through his day; he deserves quite literally anything that chemistry has to offer that he is willing to take. Nobody - absolutely nobody - has the right tell him differently.

People are ignorant and frankly downright... disgusting/pathetic/opinionated (I can't find the words to describe how far beyond unacceptable some people's positions are)... with their attempts to regulate others, when it comes to issues that do not affect them personally. If you don't have a clue, shut your mouth and let those who have to deal with the situation dictate for themselves how they will manage or cope.

But letting people do what they want with their own body is an attack on those opinions and so they must be stopped.

Psychology, with differing opinions and such you react the same way as if it were a physical attack. The brain simply can't tell the difference. Hence people do this. People can't just agree to disagree and move on. People will pick at the differing opinions like a chicken. Doesn't matter how many people they hurt as long as they get what they want. Whine, nag, violence, etc. Suddenly I started thinking of feminism.

Human is a disgusting egoistical selfish animal. Expecting any kind of standard is naive and foolish.

Related but off topic: The legal-system is filled with laws that reflect certain peoples opinion.

The government act as if they own our bodies yet we don't see a penny for the rental and when we try and say "no" they use brute force to enforce its will. Quite barbaric. If you don't have brute force backing you up than you aren't recognized as a country for example. I can say I own the moon but if I don't have brute force backing me up then I'm just a joke. Hence as a person you have no say what so ever, you're irrelevant. So why do we have a comment section? Just to distract us from actually doing something productive and affect the world? Conspiracy?

Sorry my mind wanders. Never could get the leash to work.

> Nobody - absolutely nobody - has the right tell him differently. > People are ignorant and frankly downright... disgusting/pathetic/opinionated

Those are some very strong claims. You can be sympathetic without being hyperbolic, or assuming that the reason that other don't share your views is that they're bad people who don't share your perfect reasoning.

You'll find people get heated about the subject. When strangers & governments stop normal people taking a herb or whatever for their chronically painful & destructive illness it can be frustrating. His friend could end up with cancer due to increased inflammation of the intestinal tract.

Certain groups & governments ignore science for their own agenda. Or they just don't like the sound of it. I mean, when that's the case, fuck them! Really. They're disgusting.

They are strong claims because current drug laws cost people their lives in large numbers. If there wasn't plenty of evidence to support that, I could accept that it might be excusable, but the evidence is there to the point that I have taken to at the very least consider politicians that oppose drug reform (who we should be able to expect to inform themselves) to be morally no better than murderers.

In fact, for the most part they are worse - most murderers do not cause further harm after a single death (it is exceedingly rare for people to commit more than one murder); most politicians who oppose drug law reforms continue to cause harm.

Sometimes we reach inflection points where certain views become so outdated by the availability of evidence that they become repugnant. Consider slavery (yes, I am making that comparison).

Our eras drug laws will come to be remembered as the same kind of barbaric oppression of - and violence against - weaker members of society.

While I understand your sentiment, unmitigated access to treatment modalities is generally not a good thing. People, often children with no real informed consent, die every year because they forsake science-based medicine for quackery.

The efficacy and safety of a treatment are not something we want left to personal anecdote.

The efficacy and safety of the treatments are not the issue. The issue is when government uses the threat of violence to prevent people from accessing substances that cause no harm to others.

I agree that people should not use it as treatment without seeking help, but there are far more dangerous substances you can buy over the counter.

E.g. acetaminophen/paracetamol causes a range of deaths via liver failure every year, yet not only do we allow it to be sold, in many countries it is now allowed to be sold mixed with codeine - a highly addictive opoid, creating an incentive for addicts to push the limits of their intake of highly toxic compound.

And yet people worry about cannabis - a substance where the LD50 is so high we don't know what it is, or if there is one (short of choking on it...)

Attack quackery, sure. But if you are to go after quackery, then go after current drug laws too, because they are not based on a concern over science, efficacy or safety.

It makes you wonder what The Goverment's agenda is, does it not? I mean, either you base you actions on science or you base it on something other than science. It's a shame politics so often lead to uninformed decisions. To me, these days, politics seems like a grown-up version of the high-school game you used to play when you wanted to become popular. But of course, the real issue here money. Everyone wants it. Need it. Live for it.

I call shenanigans on society.

Bingo. Just follow the money and see who profits from cannabis being illegal.

1. Can't put a patent on it and can literally grow it in your backyard - pharmaceutical industry is going to lose a large chunk of cash inflow from anti-nausea and opioids. Not to mention the fact a large portion of opioid/herion addicts started out on prescription medicine, which leads into my other points.

2. The entire law enforcement procedures will have to rethink the status quo. Smelling cannabis was a great way to have "reasonable suspicion" for violating privacy, and going after cannabis dealers were incredibly easy targets to bust. Don't forget RICO that gives LE a nice cash bonus from drug dealer assets.

3. Prison industry will have a hard time filling in the since a large majority of the prisoners are nonviolent drug offenders. Perhaps with less opioid addicts that sought cannabis instead would cause some extra vacancy as well.

4. The Cartel and several other underground organizations that I have a hard time believing would not have ties to politicians and decision makers on the subject.

Is the government the ultimate arbiter of science? Is it not possible to have access to medicines and have relevant scientific information without being subjugated by bureaucratic proxies for big pharma[1]?

>People, often children with no real informed consent, die every year because they forsake science-based medicine for quackery.

People, often children, die every year due to "science-based medicine" as well. Overdose deaths involving prescription opioids have quadrupled since 1999, and so have sales of these prescription drugs[2].

[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

[2]https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/overdose.html

According to work done by the Johns Hopkins group, smoking or vaporising can provide pretty quick relief, whereas ingestion is good for chronic pain.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/02/what-do-we-know-abou...

Yea maybe I haven't had strong enough.

I tried to treat a toothache and another time arm injury by vaping CBD oil at 25mg/ml. 5 ml later(tank capacity), it didn't do too much relief.

I think if I had strong enough (500mg-1000mg CBD) I think it could potentially provide larger relief.

I think my tolerance has been raised due to years of recreational use vs therapeutic/real medicine use

I know people say CBD is good for pain, but in my experience the high is actually part of what helps. I personally like good old OG Kush for pain.

My tolerance may be too high.

Smoking doesn't relieve pain for me, helps provide some relief via relaxation or just super high.(kush or straight indica).

Edibles I have to eat alot and time to kick in long, not too big fan of edibles.

indica, hybrid and sativa shatter/bidder)oil, live resin etc I never felt much pain relief (more to the head). A gram in a couple of hours I still didn't feel significant immediate pain relief

Vaporizers (got a volcano for 15 years), provides a nice body relief and head high depending on strains. More for relaxation.

CBD/mix as a Eliquids/juice in a ecig- I don't think I have had strong enough to fully comment.

Pills- I need to have atleast 400mg before I feel anything.

I think THC might work better than CBD for pain relief?

Also, 25 mg/ml is waaaaay to low, especially when vaping. My THC vape is 800 mg/ml, and it works very well.

You also incidentally hit upon the reason why it's been marginalized by industry for so long -- it represents a huge dent in profits. Whenever something seems awry, a good question to ask is, cui bono (who benefits)?

and who loses? Drug industry can't patent it and own it and restrict it to cause demand and price increase. Alcohol and tobacco industry will lose customers. The governments, politicians and industries will loose face for example over the fact they have told lies for decades for profits.

> Alcohol and tobacco industry will lose customers

Tobacco is already losing customers, and this is partly b/c of the fact that second hand smoke has been attacked so directly. It's not just YOU that's smoking, it's everyone around you (marijuana, depending on it's consumption method will suffer a similar stigma).

Alcohol companies on the other hand are just being paranoid. I suspect that alcohol consumption will maintain it's current usage, or potentially even go up. In fact, if marijuana was fully legalized, it's oil being very similar to hops (and in the same family, Cannabaceae), could be used in some beverages. The beer industry could in fact have an entirely "new" product line.

That is one thing I haven't tried, but do exist.

There are several marijuana drinks that get you high being sold/marketed at dispensaries

Fwiw, I am for legalization, but the second hand smoking of MJ bothers me quite a bit. I don't like the smell and, worse, get a queasy stomach (even though I otherwise don't have such issues). Living in places where people frequently smoke outside (Berlin, now SF) that's quite annoying.

That becomes more of a case of common courtesy, really. Same could be said of people who wear too much perfume or don't wear deodorant. I also am not a fan of the smell, raw, burnt, or vaped, and the whole culture of "weed sommeliers" wafting different scents with this one being "fruity" and this one being "musty" is a bit silly to me.

If they can find a way to patent fish oil they'll find a way to patent weed, provided it becomes legal for them to do so.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescripti...

I understand the viewpoint; but what about a pragmatic peaceful solution: let the persons in need organize and spread the knowledge. We probably could setup an open statistical sufferers sharing platform to avoid rumor/placebo effects without resorting to trust a big industry.

Why can't we let people have freedom, but instead propose forcing sick people to mount a lobbying effort?

What do you mean ?

> let the persons in need organize and spread the knowledge

That's lobbying. In todays world, lobbying is a dispicable act, at least if you are into science or if you like stuff that has been proven by scientific measures. In today's world, lobbying VETOes science.

Hummm, lobbying implies influencing Law to me.

Spreading knowledge isn't blocking science if done with scientists and people with conflicts if interests (unlike grabbing public projects or impeding legal change in your favor).

Yeah, I didn't intend a value judgment on lobbying in general, so much as to highlight how unfair/unreasonable it is to put that obligation on sick people. Why can't we fix what's obvious? Any of us could end up sick in the future.

What is your mom taking exactly? I have Crohn's disease but unfortunately my attempts to treat with MMJ haven't been quite as successful. Since the research is so lacking, you sort of have to come up with a custom protocol. I'd be interested to know what hers is.

I have a friend who uses it to treat Chron's. Before, he was somewhat straight-edge, as I still am.

He learned that cannabis comes under two general categories; one mostly hits "the head", e.g. Makes you really high and behave silly. Another hits the body.

If I remember correctly, the former didn't really help with pain or comfort much; the latter is less popular with recreational users for obvious reasons. At any rate, there's a huge catalog of varieties out there; I would suggest going to forums frequented by other Chrons sufferers or cancer patients and get some specific recommendations.

> My mom has benefited from cannabis to help treat chrohns.

I hope you are aware of this treatment http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/04/14/47422194...

I have been seeing a lot of press lately around GI issues and the benefits of fecal transplants. Maybe something to investigate in this case. http://pulse.seattlechildrens.org/study-suggests-fecal-trans...

It often is not helpful to give advice to people who are suffering from a chronic condition, if all you have to offer is some press you saw somewhere.

They are living it, most people who live it also research it.

They research it because the doctors can't be bothered with that even though it's their job. Why doctors aren't fired in masses is bewildering.

Got this issue with my doctors. They just don't care about me. They want to do as little work as possible. They refuse to read the papers I give them. They refuse to use effective medicines according to the research. They refuse to listen to me period. They're lazy sadistic assholes.

Finding a doctor that actually cares, works and fight to heal you is very difficult. As rare as unicorns.

Here here. Cancer patient. I've met a LOT of doctors... only two of whom I trust more than my own research. I had to diagnose myself (!!!) after two doctors gave me the old "it's nothing", took months while it spread, demanded biopsy. Am now stage IV while they're still raking in the cash, coasting through their half-assed careers.

It's bewildering to me that I'm expected to put more effort and research into building some stupid web app than they do for being responsible for a human life, for a fraction of the money.

People who've not been through the system have NO idea just how dysfunctional it is. It's sickening and criminal, at every corner -- and NOTHING is being done.

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