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Comment by leesalminen | Hacker News Reader

She does. Which is why we didn't push an investigation too hard or go to the newspaper because of this potential reaction from the public.

I don't agree with her and I do not believe she is to blame. The system worked on her and she has subordinated to the system.

My opinion is that it is not OK to blame the victim. She was assaulted. That is illegal. She posed no physical threat to the guards. She was strapped down and out numbered 4:1.

Would you blame a woman for being held down and gang raped because she dressed provocatively and said hello to these men? Of course not.

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How do you know her version of the story is the correct one? Are you sure she was really strapped down and tasered while restrained? We know she was drunk and belligerent, her recall might be imperfect.

I am not saying that police and prison guards don't abuse prisoners, but people in custody aren't always right either.

I think it boils down to:

- she was seen leaving the scene strapped to a gurney en route to jail

- the taser marks were visible for weeks in 3 separate areas of her body

- she was psychologically damaged. Literally broken for weeks emotionally. It still manifests in strange ways over a year later.

- we ran into another girl she was in jail with at court during pre trial. She was really concerned for my friends emotional well being after "what happened in there".

> I don't agree with her and I do not believe she is to blame.

I didn't say she is fully to blame, but you can't deny she was an instigator by being belligerent and/or drunk. Or rather, her actions were a catalyst to what happened to her.

You can fully expect law enforcement officials to be emotionless machines, but the reality is that they are human as well and sometimes make incorrect choices based on circumstantial triggers.

Yes, and there never seem to be consequences for that. Don't you find that troubling?

I do not deny that she was an instigator. In fact, I nearly explicitly mentioned it by using the word belligerent.

I contend that it's irrelevant.

If some guy on the street is calling me ugly, fat, or stupid and I walk to him and clock him in the jaw, it's still assault and I would still be charged. The same should apply to jail guards.

>If some guy on the street is calling me ugly, fat, or stupid and I walk to him and clock him in the jaw, it's still assault and I would still be charged. The same should apply to jail guards.

I agree that if a jail guard just walked up to somebody who spoke ill of them on the street and punched them, they should be charged.

But I don't think that things should be simplified that much in the correctional environment because there is a big difference. If inmates were loudly talking down to guards and acting belligerent, that would present a disruption to the orderly running of the institution. It would also set a standard for other inmates to act in that manner. Does that mean I'm saying corrections personnel should feel free to beat inmates at any opportunity? No. But the jail and prison environment has more complex factors at play when inmates act up than just somebody is making fun of me.

I agree it's a complex scenario.

I will never agree that beating helpless and restrained detainees is an acceptable response to any scenario in a correctional facility.

There are things like taking away TV privileges or being demoted to janitorial duty that can be an effective deterrent to many behavioral issues in a facility.

I say many (as opposed to most) because our jails/prisons are regularly used to house the mentally ill these days which creates another layer of complexity. We should fix that problem and remove that layer first and foremost.

It is irrelevant. You are right.

> You can fully expect law enforcement officials to be emotionless machines, but the reality is that they are human as well and sometimes make incorrect choices based on circumstantial triggers.

The bad thing isn't that cops are human, it's that their status insulates them from responsibility when they screw up in all but the most high-profile cases.

Who watches the watchers?

Bingo.

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