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Comment by ThomPete | Hacker News Reader

but you can download apps outide the app store and set security as low as you like.

The mac app store caters to the kind of people who dont use apps. Most mac users never install new apps on their mac than those already there.

The reason why being top 10 have no effect on sales in the mac store and have huge effect in the ios store is because people dont browse around installing new apps all the time.

So its really just a menace to everyone including the users who actually use their mac professionally.

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but you can download apps outide the app store and set security as low as you like.

Almost no developer uses sandboxing outside the Mac App store. Most apps outside the App store can see your whole filesystem and modify random files in your home directory. That is gross.

Or you know, many OS X users are software developers who use tools that actually need access to the filesystem beyond the officially provided "save as" dialog. Every IDE is expected to be able to load and save files wherever the developer saves their projects - it is simply unacceptable to pop a dialog for every save of a file in a supposedly "privileged" location. Your everyday average user who is just installing games might get away with sandboxed applications, but power users cannot be limited by the extreme restrictions placed on App Store applications.

The App Store on iOS is mostly a success - users are happy, and the only complaints are from developers trying to get visibility for their shit app that nobody is interested in. The Mac App Store for OS X, on the other hand, is a complete failure. You are locked into a single sandbox mode, with no way to ask for extended permissions from the user. The Mac App Store could die tomorrow, and nobody would care. You're a single Google search away from downloading the software - and hey, the company doesn't lose 30% for absolutely no reason.

Yes you can download apps outside the App Store, but the App Store has a brand recognition associated to it that Apple need to and should protect.

Removing the mac app store would have no effect on their brand and they shouldnt have implemented it to begin with IMO.

If anything hurts their brand its the utter lack of carring for the osx platform.

I would argue that their stringent security requirements are a testament to how much they care about the macOS platform and its users.

Yet you can dowload apps outside the app store and set as low security as youd want.

The app store has nothing to do with that as most normal users dont download anything.

The mac was considered secure long before the app store.

Security is a trade-off, not a slider to maximize. A machine with no network connection and no ability to install new software would be ultimately secure, but not much use. Caring about your users means optimizing the ratio of security to usability.

> its the utter lack of carring for the osx platform.

This is short sided. $AAPL cash cow is obviously mobile, however I don't agree that they don't care about desktop. I assume your referring to the blog outrage about the new MacBook Pros? News flash, the bloggers who were complaining the loudest and making the biggest noise on HN and in the news are a small minority. Notice how you don't see daily stories bashing Apple as much now.

See $AAPL chart: https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=0&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=0&...

No i am actually talking purely about the os not the hardware.

I hopped on the OS X train when Apple first released the x86 MacBook. OS X 10.4 was a major improvement over 10.3, Windows and Linux. Leopard and Snow Leopard brought even more improvements and features. Things started stagnating after Lion.

Today's OS X development is pretty lame by those standards.

macOS is now on a yearly release schedule, so it is logical that the deltas are smaller. If you look at the typical OS X release timeframe of yesteryear, there are quite some great improvements changes:

- Introduction of an OS-level hypervisor (Hypervisor.framework).

- Much better security and resistance against rootkits (SIP).

- A new filesystem (APFS).

- The introduction of a far more modern programming language for development (Swift).

- A new graphics API (Metal).

Sure, some coincide with features added to iOS, but I see that as a strength. There are also user-visible changes, but I care less about them. To me, the WIMP paradigm seems to have reached a local optimum and I don't think anyone is helped by Windows 8 or GNOME 3.0-like experiments.

you have to admit those are things with very minor effect on users. Sure, it will be nice to use APFS in the future, but it doesn't bring anything new.

OSX releases before Lion had much more innovative stuff, e.g.

* 10.4: spotlight, dashboard, automator, CoreImage, CoreAudio

* 10.5: time machine, spaces, cover flow, quick look, boot camp

Those are user-level improvements.

The early releases of OS X were far more primitive, so more work needed to be done on the basic building blocks (e.g. CoreImage or CoreAudio). Besides that, half of these features I have never used:

- Dashboard: never used it. Fiddled for 10 minutes and decided it's not useful.

- Automator: maybe some Alfred workflows that I use, use automator, but I never used it directly. I also don't think anyone outside power users write automator scripts. And these are the same people that can benefit from APFS or Hypervisor.framework.

- Spaces: gone. I am still sour about this though ;).

- Time machine: not that great in practice. Especially with a Time Capsule/Airport often results in backup sets that are broken.

- Cover flow: never used it, not saw the point.

- Boot camp. Never used it.

So, I and most Mac users that I know don't use half of these features. I also know quite many non-techie users that don't even know that Spotlight exists (they launch applications via the Dock and use Finder).

But most use them in some way or another which is why they are still around.

Also many people who use the mac are people who use it to develop other things like web services and ios apps. They use it as an actual actual productivity platform and create much of the value of the iPhone ecosystem.

Apple is basically lining up for it's own demise in the long run, the more they tighten the rope around the developers and kill much any of the thinking which should be helping them build the fundation of the future.

But perhaps the mac have just become a nuisance which needs to die. In that case they are doing a great job.

In my experience, OS X has gotten strictly worse with every release since Snow Leopard. Spaces crippled for no reason, fullscreen apps forced to a separate space for no reason, the already-large brightness/volume popups made nearly opaque (and not adjustable without major hacks), and everything's slower (the WindowServer process now spikes to 50%+ CPU usage for long periods, and no one can figure out why). In return, there hasn't been a single new feature that I care about. I only upgraded because more and more new software was requiring recent versions, and I'm kinda thinking it wasn't worth it.

The stuff you list is nice if you're developing software for the Mac, I suppose. I can't get too excited about the prospect of better software when the underlying OS is getting steadily worse.

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