In the Future, We’ll All Wear Spider Silk
newyorker.com
newyorker.com
Recombinant silk is a pretty cool platform upon which an entire industry can rationally and rapidly tune the properties of new fabrics.
Play with the protein, ADF3, orb-weaver dragline silk https://serotiny.bio/notes/proteins/adf3/ from Dan's original paper: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/msb.2009.62/full
Article here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-03/a-bay-are... HN thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9659712
I guess that technically they're just a little late, but honestly an ultra-limited run of ties without any impressive spidersilk properties makes me think that not a lot has changed in the last almost-two-years.
We'll see if Bolt can actually make a real serious product. As the article points out, there have been a lot of swings at this particular pitch.
"5-years in the making" is a long time. But I'm not sure the entire process was a failure. They probably have some excellent domain knowledge of value to many bigger firms as a fallback.
A down to earth hemp clothing website would be cool; like if Costco sold hemp clothes...
What is even softer than cotton is bamboo.
The issue with Hemp and Bamboo is the manufacturing process requires lots of chemicals to make them soft where as cotton basically starts off soft.
Just because something is light and super strong does not make it comfortable. Otherwise we would all be wearing nylon all the time (or some derivation... nylon is super strong and of course there is Kevlar as well).
The problem is nylon is pretty damn uncomfortable.
I remember seeing something on PBS where they showed spider silk and I admit it seemed compelling and I can easily see it probably mixed in with other textile yarns.
Of course why stop at spiders and not modify geese, goats, and sheep for their incredible and generally efficient fabric production.
Synthetics still have a hard time beating goose down for warmth. Is spider silk going to be better for high loft? I doubt it.
Would the below work?
[ Body | A layer of comfortable fabric that is only a few atoms thick | Pockets of air | A layer of light+strong magic material like spider silk ]
and nanobots embedded throughout the clothing that sense your skin's temperature and heat/vent the air pockets accordingly.
Water... Humidity control and water transport is a huge aspect.
This is why wicking is a big deal for base layers. And there is different types of wicking as well: moving to the next layer or just absorbing the water. There are pros and cons to both methods. The synthetics usually transport moisture... but this really sucks if your outer layer is waterproof which is often the case.
This is one of the many reason why wool is often used as a base layer. Wool has great humidity control via absorption with out loss of temperature. Some fabrics via absorption become like heat sink conductors (cotton) and others like neoprene (wool).
Otherwise you get chaffing, extreme heat loss, fabric freezing to skin, difficult to dry among other things... there is hackneyed expression that hikers have: cotton kills.
However wool can only absorb so much water. One of the fundamental problems is that it is really hard to create breathable fabric and waterproof fabric (despite gore-tex marketing claims).
But yeah if you had nanotech adjusting to heat/cold and water... sure it would be possible.
Wool is itchy and scratchy. Lots of people hate wool.
>there is hackneyed expression that hikers have: cotton kills.
Yes, cotton is terrible as a base layer. That's why high-quality hiker's socks have a lot of nylon, the thing you claim in another post is "pretty damn uncomfortable". My hiking socks aren't uncomfortable at all.
And synthetics stink like crap after short use. Today's Merino Wool is not as scratchy as yesteryear (e.g. smartwool, icebreakers, etc).
> Yes, cotton is terrible as a base layer. That's why high-quality hiker's socks have a lot of nylon, the thing you claim in another post is "pretty damn uncomfortable". My hiking socks aren't uncomfortable at all.
Nylon is fantastic for feet particularly if mixed with other fabric. DarnTough and Smartwool use a merino nylon mix.
Your feet are different than the rest of your body and my previous comment was alluding to 100% nylon.
If you think a 100% nylon shirt is comfortable (or even warm for that matter) I must admit I will be amused.
>If you think a 100% nylon shirt is comfortable (or even warm for that matter) I must admit I will be amused.
Tons of women seem to have no problem with nylon hosiery. And tons of men are now wearing fairly similar "baselayer" leggings made of nylon.
And there are tons of women that do find it uncomfortable. In fact I don't know of a single woman that enjoys being in nylons all day.
As for men wearing nylon leggings (which I assume non hosiery but for active wear) it is a blend of fabrics. Usually it is a mixture of nylon, spandex, polyester maybe some wool. To be honest spandex is more of the key component (not by total % but giving it the stretch) in leggings these days.
EDIT your reference to yoga pants/tights is amusing but you do know that yoga pants/tights aren't made of 100% nylon?
They are made just like work out leggings which might have nylon as component. The key ingredient for tights these days is spandex and not nylon.
Maybe you aren't talking to the right ones then. Considering how many young women I see dressed casually in tights these days, apparently a lot of people do like them. If you're talking about business-wear, it's probably because business-wear in general isn't very comfortable; men's suits are horribly uncomfortable too, so I imagine women's business skirts and jackets are just as awful. If you want to see what's comfortable (or at least not horribly uncomfortable), look at what younger people are wearing away from the workplace.
They are made just like work out leggings which might have nylon as component. The key ingredient for tights these days is spandex and not nylon.
> If you're talking about business-wear, it's probably because business-wear in general isn't very comfortable; men's suits are horribly uncomfortable tooa
Men's suits made with wool are not uncomfortable unless we are talking extreme heat. They are silk lined and the wool is ultra fine. Is it as comfortable as cotton? maybe not.. but is for damn sure more comfortable than 100% nylon. I remember thinking men's biz wear was uncomfortable when I was younger and bought crap.
> so I imagine women's business skirts and jackets are just as awful
They are worse. I won't go into the details but women's clothing is more volume based than quality. Also almost all men's dress clothes are tailored and it is rare for women's clothes to be tailored.
You know what is uncomfortable that is apparently casual these days is "skinny" anything. Skinny jeans are damn uncomfortable.
Actually, no, I'm talking about tights, not yoga pants. If I had meant yoga pants, I would have written that. Tights are just thicker versions of women's pantyhose.
>The key ingredient for tights these days is spandex and not nylon.
Untrue; go look at the labels. Spandex is usually in the single-digit range as a percentage, and never more than 15% from what I've seen. I guess you could call it a "key ingredient" like egg is an essential ingredient many baked goods, even though it's a small portion of the overall volume, while the majority is wheat flour. But no one makes anything out of mainly spandex; it's added in as a small component for its extremely elastic properties.
>You know what is uncomfortable that is apparently casual these days is "skinny" anything. Skinny jeans are damn uncomfortable.
Tons of young people seem to disagree with you. Most likely, they have spandex added. It probably also helps a lot to not be fat.
Well I admit it seems I have mixed up the word tights. Apparently tights can mean hosiery.
I meant the black pants you see around college campuses. They don't wear skirts with them but I suppose skirts can be worn.
> I guess you could call it a "key ingredient" like egg is an essential ingredient many baked goods
Yes that is exactly what I meant.
They make cotton spandex leggings.
> Tons of young people seem to disagree with you. Most likely, they have spandex added. It probably also helps a lot to not be fat.
Hmm I'll make sure to put on my nylon spandex pajamas on tonight.
When I google lounge wear there seems to be trend of things being"relaxed" fit... which seem to be loose. Even the term "relaxed" sort of implies comfort.
The main reason why they put nylon in anything is to make the garment stronger and not for comfort.
How on Earth is nylon "pretty damn uncomfortable"? They make all kinds of body-hugging clothes with it.
Now a mixture of nylon is a different thing but I was referring to 100%.
Frankly I find the tactile feel of most synthetics (especially nylon exterior wear) pretty nasty (particularly the more water resistant/proof it is).
People who want to move silently do not wear nylon (ask hunters and various hikers).
I admit I find the feeling of it weird as it has a rough canvas feeling but even canvas feels better (I'm talking the jackets that use nylon).
As per your other comment (different thread) about hosiery being made out of nylon that is because nylon is so strong and not because it is comfortable. The other options like silk would be far more comfortable. This is where spider silk could actually be a great alternative.
> Obviously lots of people like them or else they wouldn't be selling so well.
Actually nylon is becoming seen less and less for outerwear exterior particularly for performance wear or luxury wear.
In large part this is due to breathability and weight. For example most of Patagonia's jackets these days aim for breathability so they sacrifice 100% waterproof nylon with a DWR polyester.
Most of the high end brand outwear jackets now use a cotton blend + polyester (canadian goose, Fjallraven G1000, etc).
I agree that nylon is superior in terms of strength and cost but clearly it isn't the most comfortable nor has a luxurious feel.
It is also a regarded as dangerous to wear if you are around fire. Wool and Cotton/Poly blends are still often preferred by campers.
I have admitted multitude of times that nylon is great for what it is but you seem contentious to prove it is the ultimate fabric.
I would rather wear 100% merino wool (which I'm wearing now) than 100% nylon any day.
As for 70s clothes, I have no idea, probably preferences. Everyone these days seems to wear jeans, particularly men, but that doesn't mean that denim is the best thing for pants either, though it seems to work well enough for many people. It's not that great for warmth (but not terrible), it's terrible for water-resistance, and isn't all that great for durability either (as the knees of my jeans have shown over and over throughout the years).
Another factor is polyester in the 70s: it was a new "wonder" fabric back then, but then fell out of favor, and was seen as cheap and crappy compared to cotton. Now it seems to be making a resurgence. Perhaps they've figured out how to make better versions of it now, which end up being better overall, for certain applications, than nylon.
I love nylon for what it is but I don't think it isn't even remotely comfortable fabric (at extremely high %) even with varying weaves (compared to say silk). Nylon socks (100% which are hard to find) are just not as comfortable. If you think they are that is fine but I think more people would agree that is not the case.
I'm sure you can make quality hosiery out of nylon but I still find it disturbing that you think women enjoy wearing hosiery. The high end hosier is made out of silk which it was traditionally made out of. Some people are even allergic to nylon.
The reason this argument is relevant other than just pure opinion is spider silk if made cheap would make a great alternative to nylon and is the reason I picked out nylon to pick on in the first place! I mean I could go on and on about polyurethane but it isn't relevant to spider silk.
Considering how many young women and college girls wear tights for casual wear, I find it disturbing you have this viewpoint.
>The high end hosier is made out of silk
Since when? This hasn't been true for decades. I challenge you to find any women's hosiery still made of silk. All the really high-end stuff like Wolford is made of nylon (+spandex of course), just like the cheap stuff.
Comparing hosiery to tights is not even remotely the same thing. Tights/Leggings are basically soft stretchable skinny pants. You don't wear skirts with them. Not to mention they often don't even have nylon in them (it is spandex)!!!
I haven't even gone into the years of sexist oppression associated with hosiery. You know wearing high heels and skirts.
Maybe I'm wrong though as I'm old. You seem to have a better idea what women like to wear. Maybe hosiery is in for comeback.
> Since when?
Ahh just google it but I confess the reality is most woman don't wear hosiery anymore so it doesn't really matter.
WTF are you talking about? Hosiery and tights are the same thing; tights are just the thicker opaque versions. Yes, they absolutely ARE worn with skirts/dresses. And yes, they do have nylon; nothing is made with 100% spandex, that's just plain ridiculous. Please go learn a little more about clothing before making such ridiculous and false statements.
>Ahh just google it but I confess the reality is most woman don't wear hosiery anymore so it doesn't really matter.
Only in your warped perception of the world. Just because you state something as true doesn't make it so.
Apparently I was confused with what are considered tights these days [1].
You knew I didn't mean 100% for the spandex. I mentioned over and over in threads it is a key component in making almost any garment extra stretchy but very little has to be added. You can have spandex cotton garments for example.
> Please go learn a little more about clothing before making such ridiculous and false statements.
Thanks for being rude. As a male I admit I'm a often confused with female clothing terms.
I decided to amazon "tights" to "learn" a little. I must admit the opaque tights which are obviously to be worn with skirts (which I refer to as hosiery) do have nylon. But the tights I'm referring too that are often worn with out skirt seem to not have nylon in them.
https://www.amazon.com/Vero-Monte-Womens-Knitted-Patterned/d...
> Only in your warped perception of the world. Just because you state something as true doesn't make it so.
I just don't see women wearing hosiery aka panty house (and I'm not talking about tights and yes there is difference see link).
Overall my point is nylon is added because it is strong and not because it comfortable.
But how about we just settle on I'm a moron and you are correct?
After all I said it was only my opinion on nylon being uncomfortable and that I have heard the same sentiment from others.
[1]: http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/fashion-beaut...
Yes, and I've heard the exact same thing about wool, and it's in fact my opinion too (that wool is itchy and scratchy and uncomfortable), but somehow you seem to think wool is the most comfortable thing on the planet. But of course, there's wool defenders out there who keep trying to claim that wool is wonderful, but everything I've ever touched that was made of wool was the same, to some degree.
Maybe you shouldn't go around proclaiming what is and isn't "comfortable" like you know what 100% of the human population will find comfortable.
Actually cashmere and bamboo I think are the most comfortable (my opinion of course).
> But of course, there's wool defenders out there who keep trying to claim that wool is wonderful, but everything I've ever touched that was made of wool was the same, to some degree.
Ahh so this is the cause of the contention. You think I prefer wool over everything (btw the post thread about wools was just an example of material about humidity control. you could replace that with various forms of polyester as a wicking layers like Capilene).
> Maybe you shouldn't go around proclaiming what is and isn't "comfortable" like you know what 100% of the human population will find comfortable.
I'm sorry you thought I proclaimed what should be comfortable and yes I did falsely assume that most people consider nylon less comfortable than other fabrics.
I based this though on the fact that I rarely see 100% nylon clothes and somewhat confident that manufactures add the material to make the garment stronger and not more comfortable.
I guess one could argue nylon does make fabric more comfortable because you can use a lot less fabric and thus is lighter since it is so strong. So again apologies. You probably are onto something.
As for the wool, I didn't think you preferred it over everything, I was just pointing out how different people have different preferences, and perceptions. I think wool is itchy based on my experiences, and there's plenty of people who will agree if I say "wool is itchy". This doesn't mean everything thinks that way, or that it's objectively itchy all the time. Maybe there's stuff made of wool where they've done a better job, used a better grade, etc. and many people find those garments comfortable. Maybe almost everyone would, maybe it's still split (many things are "love it or hate it"). But I felt you were claiming nylon was always uncomfortable, and disagreed. I really do think there's a lot of variation in what people find comfortable though. You even mentioned how a lot of lounge-wear and other things marketers claim is comfortable is loose-fitting, but look how many men like to wear tight cycling clothes and running pants these days. Maybe they don't wear them in bed, but they seem to like them well enough when exercising/riding. I wear a tight-fitting high-spandex cycling outfit when I'm on my bike and don't find it "uncomfortable" at all, though again I wouldn't go to sleep in it. I actually find the bike pants more comfortable than my regular jeans, but I wouldn't wear them for most activities because they'd probably get too many negative comments and looks.
https://www.wired.com/2015/12/the-north-faces-moon-parka-is-...
...a bit pricey at this point. Maybe spider-silk-enhanced fabrics would be more reasonable.
[1] http://fortune.com/2016/05/11/north-face-fake-spider-silk/
#skitterasaservice