Tim Bray's thoughts on the BP disaster | Hacker News Reader

Tim Bray's thoughts on the BP disaster

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12 pointsevancaine20 comments

Except that's not what happened. Despite being a multi-billion dollar company they didn't install an emergency shutoff that only cost $500k.

That's not just "drawing the short straw," that's criminal negligence.

Add to that that the oil companies were actively lobbying/bribing the regulators for minimal restrictions and that the platform was drilling below the depth they were permitted to drill at (which can't help the cleanup efforts). Short straw indeed.

His original point still stands. If not BP, then it would've been another company. As consumers we demand low oil prices, the oil companies cut corners to meet that demand and it has consequences.

Do you really think that if their margins were a little higher they would spend the extra cash on safety improvements?

Errr, which emergency shut off are you referring to?

An acoustic signaler? The utility of that is highly unclear, the BOP after all has a deadman system to engage if it loses its connection to the rig. Everything I've heard indicates the BOP failed in its primary function, for reasons we won't be sure of until it can be removed and examined (it might be something as simple as it not being able to shear through pipe couplings).

It's far to early to pin blame like that. I will be the first one to beat down the door when it is time, but let's not get too hasty with all this.

(fwiw I think in terms of cut out systems they were reasonably installed - that the bop failed could be an act of god or negligence: we have no idea yet. The possible negligence, and cause, elsewhere is another matter)

From a "60 Minutes" interview with a surviving on-site worker, we have pretty strong allegations that a mistake followed upon by willful negligence destroyed the effectiveness of the cutoff device and then chose to ignore same.

There is a plausible argument that this aided the decision to proceed with subsequent mistakes. For example, if the device was compromised as described, pressure readings would be incorrect.

If there is no criminal investigation, I will consider the governments involved effectively (entirely) compromised.

Yeh I saw that too; it certainly doesn't look good.

I think we will see a criminal investgation - especially as this is a new gvernment, and the public are definitely asking for it to happen. I'll be interested to see the conclusion - my prediction? A mixture of accidents, mistakes and negligence which combined into a "fluke" accident. Heads will role :-) (which is another reason to take it slowly/calmly - it will be much easier for any culprits to pin blame in the current confusion)

When "mistakes" results in deaths, in the "normal world" this may be considered manslaughter.

At this point, I don't consider a Congressional investigation to be a criminal investigation. Even an appointed independent investigator/prosecutor will not suffice unless empowered to bring criminal charges. (And not merely against a chosen fall guy or scapegoat.)

This is anecdotal, but the behavior and comments reported remind me all too much of what I've seen in (not the oil) industry. My own experience has shown my how prevalent negligence and cover-ups are, particularly in corporate environments. And how difficult it can be for ethical employees to counteract those trends.

Sometimes -- often -- negligence may originate in part in ignorance and stupidity. It's not an excuse, especially when people die and livelihoods are destroyed -- to say nothing of irreplaceable natural resources. And irrespective of punishment, those responsible need to be removed from the ability and opportunity to make such mistakes again.

If this makes it more difficult to find people willing to engage in oil production, maybe that is an economic incentive to accelerate development of other energy sources.

EDIT: Sorry. This morning's coffee seems to have aided me in "getting my grump on". What I stated is a bit strong and perhaps simplistic. On the other hand, now is precisely the time to get -- publicly -- a bit "pissed off" and push for some real change.

FURTHER EDIT: Well, it would have been better to push for change before such a problem occurred. But, to be practical/realistic/pragmatic/resigned about it ;-), now that it's in everyone's face, best to make hay while the sun shines.

I think Bray is absolutely right to suggest that it's churlish to blame one corporation for the inevitable consequences of our energy consumption. We all like to turn a blind eye to how energy is produced, but ultimately it is a dirty business, whether that dirt is in the form of spilled oil, nuclear waste or conflict over rare earth metals. I certainly hadn't heard of a blowout protector a few weeks ago and I don't imagine too many of you had either. Much like sausage and laws, I think we just don't like to think about how our energy is made.

California's ongoing electricity crisis is the obvious example - given the choice, we tend to point-blank oppose the production of energy in spite of our own consumption. The economist Robin Hanson likes to talk of the modern age as being a sort of Dreamtime, a collective delusion more real than reality itself. I think our attitudes to energy are the most obvious element of this delusion. Most people reading this will live long enough to see us use the last of our gas, coal and oil, but we seem blissfully unaware of how dependent we are on these dwindling resources. The fact that oil prices have fallen substantially since the start of the Deepwater spill suggests to me that we have a completely myopic perspective on the value of our energy reseres.

Of course we should push to produce energy in safer and cleaner ways, but I think we all must come to terms with the fact that our energy consumption has inevitable negative consequences. If nothing else, we are consuming it at a completely unsustainable rate and none of us really have a workable plan for the future - if you think you know what the answer to our energy future is, I strongly recommend looking over Dr MacKay's book Energy Policy Without the Hot Air, which sets out in plain numbers just what a difficult problem we face. http://www.withouthotair.com/

Most people are not pissed at BP - they just want them to fall. It's reality entertainment.

(This obviously excludes anyone who's really affected by the spill.)

And by having used a petroproduct, and/or continuing to do so, you upright citizens are complicit in the negligence.

Congress is bought with your money, so that you can have cheaper ironic tshirts and replica 80s eyeware. All the fingerpointing and assorted loraxerei makes you look silly.

Agree. This is a particularly frustrating/disgusting aspect. So few people (I'm speaking particularly of those in the U.S.) apparently consider their own role in this. The country's voracious appetite for "cheap" energy. Continued avoidance of investment in and implementation of efficiency measures. Repeatedly electing officials who neuter effective regulation.

Don't forget who put BP where they are.

Yup, and all those Memorial Day road trips are only going to fund more BP oil wells.

The disconnect people have on this issue with their own actions is amazing.

It's not entirely clear that BP didn't screw up beyond the normal pale, but he is right that if you live in a society run on fossil fuels, this shit is going to happen.

The problem is, that people who are trying to move to a society not run on fossil fuels have to pay the exact same consequences as the people chanting 'drill, baby, drill!'

I'm pissed at BP and the entire petrol industry for doing everything in their power to continue our dependence on their products. Every time a promising alternative to a fossil fuel starts to bubble up magically it gets snuffed out by the car industry and / or big oil.

If it turns out BP did everything right and it was just the one in a million accident I will agree, but so far it looks like they took a lot of extra risks and effectively made the short straw.

For eight years the United States had a government that was bought, paid for and owned by the oil industry. And the oil industry thought that this was a very good thing. Then the law of unintended consequences kicks in and the result will be that things will be much more difficult for the oil industry, or at least offshore drilling, for the foreseeable future.

8 years? I think you dropped a zero, or are woefully ignorant of the history of this great nation.

The oil industry has always been immensely influential but I'm only aware of one point in US history when the Executive Branch was actually populated from the top down by oil industry insiders.

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