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Comment by JDiculous | Hacker News Reader

I've never lived in SF or Europe, but as an American who's lived in the suburbs of DC and now NYC, it seems to me that Americans in general are less internationally conscious than Europeans. Most Europeans I know speak 3+ languages, have studied and lived abroad, and have traveled extensively. Americans in my experience tend to be more insular and less cultured. And it makes sense because Europe has so many different countries clustered together, traveling between them is cheap and easy, and they get 4+ weeks vacation.

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I'm an Australian living and working in the SF Bay and my wife (Russian) and I have noticed the same thing. Americans in general seem to live in a bubble. Of course pretty much everyone lives in a bubble of some kind but the American bubble seems to be stronger than many.

It makes a lot of sense to me though. America, like Europe, has a huge amount of diversity in things to do and places to go. It would take a lifetime to see everything worth seeing in America and I can see why the effort (and cost) of going to say Europe or Asia wouldn't seem appealing when you can go see something domestically like the Grand Canyon, the museums in DC or any of the numerous different cities/states.

So Americans don't have as much reason to travel I think and given that the American economy is so enormous and the country is physically isolated from the rest of the world, ultimately, the state of the world outside America doesn't impact an American as much as it does a European.

This isn't to say that this is right but I think this at least somewhat provides some reason for the way things are.

"Most Europeans I know speak 3+ languages, have studied and lived abroad, and have traveled extensively."

This is likely selection bias, at least in part. If you were to live in Europe, the proportion of Europeans you know who speak 3+ languages would go down, the proportion of Americans you know who speak 2+ languages would go up.

BTW - 25% of the Americans I know speak Chinese. Also selection bias: I live in China and have never lived in the US.

When you consider European countries are the equivalent of US states in size, you can easily grasp why it's so common for people to travel between countries in Europe.

I'm not sure if you intended to say Americans are intentionally insular, but if so, that's definitely not the case. It's just a side effect of being able to travel 2000 miles easily without ever leaving the US.

Additionally, in order to travel to another country other than Mexico/Canada, airfare alone for a family of 4 will be like 10% of the average annual household income so it's not really affordable for most Americans.

> Most Europeans I know speak 3+ languages, have studied and lived abroad, and have traveled extensively.

This is very much specific to what country in Europe you're talking about and what field of work you're in. Over here in the UK, there are a lot fewer people that speak multiple languages than in say the Nordic countries or Germany.

The UK is trying hard to become the 51st state - with some success. It's quite shocking how much of our culture is imported from the US.

We get far more news about the US than we do about Europe, US movies and TV are mainstream while European movies usually only get niche middle class art house distribution, our singers sing with fake US accents, and it used to be much easier to decorate your living room with photos of Brooklyn Bridge than of European landmarks - until we started putting union jacks on everything.

As far as many English people are concerned the US is full of sexy super heroes, while the EU is full of immigrants, shifty foreigners, bureaucrats, and smelly cheese.

So it actually makes no sense to compare SF to London, because in many ways (excepting the weather, the age of the housing stock, and possibly the social signals used to indicate class) they're more similar than different.

Comparing SF to Berlin, Barcelona, or maybe Lisbon might be more revealing.

As an European who speaks 3 languages I can agree to that. I live in London and even though British people may not speak as many languages as the average continental European person, but most Europeans and especially British people have literally traveled the world.

I don't even mean that Europeans travel more because they jump a few European borders. Most European people I know have taken a whole year out after university to travel the entire planet, trying to see and experience as much as possible, from far Africa, to Asia and even America. I travel a lot myself and whenever I cross continents I always tend to meet the same people: Europeans (English, Swedish, Germans, French, etc.) and Australians. I rarely meet an American. Mostly I came across Canadians in South and Central America, but that was it.

> Most European people I know have taken a whole year out after university to travel the entire planet,

This is not true of most European people I know. Yes, some people do it, but it's a very small percentage of the population, concentrated among the wealthier part. Even in the UK it's only a small part of the population that does it, never mind in poorer countries like Greece. I do think the majority of Scandinavians I know have done the "gap year" trip, but not the majority of British, Polish, French, Spanish, or Greeks.

My view of what's normal in the UK, though, may be different because I don't live in London.

This is totally untrue. As someone from the north of england, now living in London I would say <5% of people I went to school with took a 'gap year'.

In London I would put that number closer to 25%, but that says more about the type of people that move to London than it does about Europeans in general.

Exactly. I'm Canadian, and although my friends travel pretty regularly to the US/Mexico and sometimes Europe, I was amazed living in London how often my coworkers would be in other countries. Despite being near the US border, I rarely see people do weekend trips to the states, but it happens all the time between european countries it seems. Maybe flight prices have an impact, but europe just seems completely different culturally with regards to multiculturalism and leisure travel.

I don't know if it's true, but the common belief here in Europe is that interstate/intercontinental flights are cheaper in the USA. Flying from Prague to Milano costs around $100 with a low-cost airline, if you wait for a good deal.

Anything under $300 is a cheap roundtrip from where I am. We can often fly to europe cheaper than to the other side of the country.

From London, if you're flexible with the destination, it's easy enough to choose the $50 return deal.

This month, there are flights to France for £5 each way.

https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/cheap-flights/?from=STN&out-fr...

I know, but the median price is probably higher than this, because London is a huge international hub and a connection with both the east and the west. France is also very close to London.

There isn't a good rail system in north America and flights are expensive and slow (due to security and border crossing). You don't cross any borders traveling around Europe.

A trip between London and Paris is faster than a trip between New York and Boston.

Hey look, more stereotypes!

This isn't Reddit, if you have nothing of value to add then don't post.

Yes, this entire post is about generalizations. I figured that was sort of implied.

I criticized the article for containing nothing but stereotypes, and you replied with more of the same stereotypes.

And yet, your post added even less. He clearly mentions that Europeans he knows are more cultured than the typical American he deals with (caveat: I lived in DC and now live in Geneva, and this is my experience as well).

Obviously, we're dealing with stereotypes. If you're this repulsed by it, I'm very interested in knowing how you'd dissect "culture" without resorting to generalizations?

Generalizations are not equal to stereotypes.

I replied with my own observations regarding cultural differences based on my own personal experience, which you've sarcastically dismissed as "stereotypes".

Mods: Is there a way to mute/block users?

>Mods: Is there a way to mute/block users?

Great question. Coming from Mr. "I have no experience with Europeans, London, or San Francisco, but here's my opinion anyway".

To contribute: I've spent a considerable time in London and the original post has left me unconvinced that the author has spent any time in London except as a tourist and living vicariously through other peoples' blog posts.

Maybe you didn't actually read my original comment that you responded to, but I never defended the article - in fact I agree, it seems to mostly be baseless stereotypes explained away by the author working in totally different type of jobs in the cities (management consulting vs. startup). I was just speaking to a single point, from the perspective of Americans vs. Europeans. If you disagree then feel free to actually address any of the points I made with a counterargument. "Hey more stereotypes!" adds nothing to the discussion and devolves the community towards being another Reddit, where people just bicker like children rather than engaging in constructive debate.

There is a difference between generalizations, which may have value if shrewdly observed, and shallow stereotypical characterizations. This post was shallow. Pointing that out is every bit as value as snide remarks about Reddit and an equally snide uninformed reading of the piece. Perhaps more so.

How is that stereotyping? He didn't come out saying "all Americans are dumb, iliterate, and about 100 lbs overweight". _That_ would have been stereotyping. By contrast, his post was a fairly mild and inoffensive "in my experience, the Europeans I know are more cultured". Are you reading more into it than is there?

voting down because this sounds like a bad faith reply: it assumes the poster is wrong and demands proof, rather than admitting a lack of understanding and asking for guidance.

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