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Comment by bogomipz | Hacker News Reader

So the hotel industry's plan revolves solely around more legislation and regulation?

How about competing by innovating and providing the consumer with a better or improved experience?

Does the industry really believe that theres nothing they can do to improve on the consumer experience? It feels like its changed very little if at all over the years.

How about stop charging $15.00 a day for internet. It's 2017 charging for internet like charging for power in the room.

How about getting rid of inflexible checkin/checkout times?

How about lobbying local governments to reduce the exorbitant double digit taxes and fees consumers pay on hotels stays instead.[1]

Example tax rates:

18.27% New York City

17.76% Nashville

17% Houston and Indianapolis

16.75% San Antonio, TX and Columbus, OH

[1] http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/understanding-hotel...

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AirBnb is also collecting occupancy tax in many cities [0]. I don't have a view on whether this tax is well justified, but it does seem like if hotels are required to charge it, then full time airbnb hosts should be required to charge it as well.

[0] https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/653/in-what-areas-is-occ...

I understand that AirBnB is now collecting an Transient Occupancy Tax on a county by county or city by city basis. I'm not arguing that whether AirBnB should be required to charge it. But when you stay in a hotel you as a guest get hit with both an occupancy tax and a sales tax.

The PDF here is a few years old but its a good overview of the tax regimes:

https://www.hvs.com/article/6856/the-2013-hvs-us-lodging-tax...

> Does the industry really believe that theres nothing they can do to improve on the consumer experience? It feels like its changed very little if at all over the years.

You must not travel alot, or at least not in the US. There has actually been a lot of innovation amongst the big brand chains in recent years. Hilton for example allows online/app check-in/check-out and they've been aggressively rolling out digital room key compatibility across their properties (via bluetooth in the app). This has allowed me in recent stays to completely avoid the front desk / human interaction - from check-in to check-out.

> How about stop charging $15.00 a day for internet. It's 2017 charging for internet like charging for power in the room.

WiFi is mostly free for most of major chains in the US (Hilton, Marriott, IHG) - especially their secondary brands (Hampton Inns, Springfield Suites, Courtyard, etc.). Those that charge usually offer it for free to members of their loyalty/points programs.

These days, I mostly see paid-internet in the top tier hotel brands in tier-one cities. Think the Ritz in NYC, etc. Again the internet is usually free for members of their frequent traveller programs.

> How about getting rid of inflexible checkin/checkout times?

All the major brands have check-in / check-out flexibility. I've never been denied late check-out requests, especially with advance notice. Most hotels will allow early check-ins no problem and most chains allow you to request this via the web / app.

Early check-in / late check-out is also typically _guaranteed_ for elite members of their frequent travel programs (at least this is the case for Hilton and Marriott).

> How about lobbying local governments to reduce the exorbitant double digit taxes and fees consumers pay on hotels stays instead.[1]

It's worth remembering that those taxes go towards meeting various regulatory requirements, like ensuring safety standards, etc.... things it's important to remember that AirBnB lacks. If all AirBnBs are required to have working fire alarms for example, I'm sure AirBnB will tack on a "safety" fee, just like Uber did when they had to do driver background checks.

As a frequent traveler (so far over 40 hotel stays this year), I always prefer a hotel to an AirBnB. It is 100x more convenient for mostly a marginal difference.

Pro-tip: for hilton properties use hiltonfamilymvp.com for 10-30% off the rack rates.

>You must not travel alot, or at least not in the US."

I spend a little over half a year on the road. I've recently been charged for internet at an Omni, a Wyndham, and a Westin hotel in the U.S.

>"All the major brands have check-in / check-out flexibility. I've never been denied late check-out requests, especially with advance notice. Most hotels will allow early check-ins no problem and most chains allow you to request this via the web / app."

I am referring to being able to specify my checkin and checkout time when I book. All of the online reservations systems I have used still mandate 3:00PM check in. I am not talking about picking up the phone and calling the front desk after I am already in the room.

>"It's worth remembering that those taxes go towards meeting various regulatory requirements, like ensuring safety standards, etc.... things it's important to remember that AirBnB lacks."

Really 15% of a $300 dollar a night hotel for 3 days(roughly $135) goes to meeting safety inspections? None of the $300 a night goes towards meeting that?

I'm sorry but I don't think that a hotel having an app for your smartphone is some great innovation in the industry.

> I spend a little over half a year on the road. I've recently been charged for internet at an Omni, a Wyndham, and a Westin hotel in the U.S.

Your experience is really becoming more and more less common. I would say, especially so for a frequent traveller such as yourself. Just in the past 4 weeks I've visited the following cities: * Boston * San Francisco * New York area * Atlanta * Denver * Houston

Free internet the whole trip. Stayed in a mix of Hilton and Marriott properties (Hilton, HGI, Hampton, Doubletree, Springfield Suites, Towneplace Suites, and Marriott Courtyard) with one stay at a Holiday Inn.

If you travel so much, you should really get on the various frequent travel programs that the hotel chains offer. In fact, one of the hotels you stayed at, Westin, provides free wifi if you're enrolled in SPG's rewards program (you don't even need to have status). This has been the policy since 2015 (1).

> I am referring to being able to specify my checkin and checkout time when I book. All of the online reservations systems I have used still mandate 3:00PM check in. I am not talking about picking up the phone and calling the front desk after I am already in the room.

Yes, Hilton allows you to specify the check-in times and also ask for late check-out via their app. Most, if not all, hotel chains also allow you make additional requests via a comments field when you make the booking on the web. In any case, making a quick phone call is really not that much of a hassle, and not that much more convenient than sending a message to your host on AirBnB.

> Really 15% of a $300 dollar a night hotel for 3 days(roughly $135) goes to meeting safety inspections? None of the $300 a night goes towards meeting that?

Taxes cover many costs, some portion of it, likely due to regulations. Bringing up the room rate is a bit of a misdirection, that rate is determined a host of variables, of which regulations is likely not one (or really low on the list). In any case, AirBnB tacks on a litany of fees to their "rack rate". I'm not sure what your point here - the hotels don't set the taxes...

> I'm sorry but I don't think that a hotel having an app for your smartphone is some great innovation in the industry.

Well your original complaint was that the hotel industry is not innovating, and you cite things like charging for wifi and not being able to check-in early / check-out late as supporting evidence.

I'm highlighting to you all the various things that the hotel industry is currently doing to "innovate". It's not just about having an app, its about the various features and functionalities that the app offers, which as a consequence, brings "innovation" to the user experience. At my recent Hilton stays, I was able to do everything (book a room, check-in, choose my room, unlock my door, check-out, receive my invoice, etc.) without any human contact involved at all. How is that not innovation?

Honestly, I'm pretty surprised that you hold these views given that you travel "a little over half the year". I would highly suggest you: 1) Enroll in each hotel chains' customer loyalty program; 2) Try to focus your stays in one/two chains as to build status. Also, take some time to do some basic research. Lots of popular travel blogs to start with and you always have FlyerTalk to default back to if you're into the discussion board format.

I started my career as a management consultant traveling every week (one year I had over 175 hotel stays!) and find myself traveling nearly as much in my current job. In the US at least, the hotel industry has changed/innovated, quite a bit in the past decade. I'm confidant that if you post your views on say FlyerTalk, people will back up my points.

1. https://spgpromos.com/internet/?action=main.faq

>". I would highly suggest you: 1) Enroll in each hotel chains' customer loyalty program; "

Why do I need to sign up for every individual hotel's loyalty program in order to receive "special treatment" when those things are a considered basic amenities and practices elsewhere? Why do they need to be part of "special program"? Creating some artificial status is not really innovation.

>"I'm confidant that if you post your views on say FlyerTalk, people will back up my points."

Now why would I do that? I'm not competing with you. This was a discussion.

There are a lot of people innovating in business today. I don't think for most people hotel chains would be there first thought as an experience that has changed with the times.

> Why do I need to sign up for every individual hotel's loyalty program in order to receive "special treatment" when those things are a considered basic amenities and practices elsewhere? Why do they need to be part of "special program"? Creating some artificial status is not really innovation.

You're shifting the argument and haven't really addressed all the other examples I've cited for how the hotel industry is trying to innovate. If you can't be bothered to take a few minutes to sign-up for some programs, then I guess you'll have to keep on paying for WiFi and complaining about it on online forums :P

Plus these customer loyalty programs are pretty much par for the course in every travel industry - and soon I'm sure - will be adopted by AirBnB as well. United MileagePlus program for example has existed for like 30 years... so it's not like this is a new phenomena. I'm sure there are other customer loyalty programs that predate that.

The "I hate doing this and don't see a reason to do it" argument is not very convincing. You're projecting.

> Now why would I do that? I'm not competing with you. This was a discussion.

It's a discussion in the sense that we're both talking, but you're not really addressing any of the points or examples I've cited. If you dislike hotel chains, so be it, but clearly hotels are trying to innovate and have innovated in the past decade.

You might want to consult FlyerTalk because that forum is geared towards frequent travelers, like yourself, and frequented by subject matter experts. If you're open to learning about how the industry is innovating, I'm sure you find even better examples than the ones I've provided.

> There are a lot of people innovating in business today. I don't think for most people hotel chains would be there first thought as an experience that has changed with the times.

I agree with you, but don't you see that you're shifting the argument? Your original point is that hotels are not innovating. Now it has shifted to: the hotel industry is not as innovate as other industries.

It's always been interesting to me that the paid internet thing only happens at the low end and high end, but rarely ever in between.

At least in the states, my anecdotal observation is that it's being phased out completely. It seems both the rich and poor alike hate paying for the internet :D

Now the scheme has morphed into free "basics" internet vs paid "premium" internet.

Maybe it isn't that they can't innovate, but that it is more cost effective to lobby than to innovate. The return on investment for getting new regulations passed that helps them is higher than the return on investment for providing a better service that attracts customers. Maybe paying the government to ban your competitor is the wiser business move.

Agreed. I find it utter insulting when they charge for internet.

Is this an US thing?

I travel a lot and I can't remember the last time I had a hotel to charge for the Internet access separately.

My parents went on a trip to Europe a few years ago and we used Skype on every location they stayed at. The only place where they didn't have to pay separately for Internet access and where the connection wasn't dogcrap was Austria. And I don't remember where it happened, but in one case it was so outrageously expensive they just waited until their following destination to call.

But indeed, they later traveled to the US and had to pay as well. Nowhere I have stayed at in our third world country (Uruguay) this is a thing.

I've stayed in hotels all over Europe and never once paid for internet. I did pay in India, however.

>"Is this an US thing?"

I think its mostly a big corporate hotel chain thing as I have also experienced this in the EU as well(although it might have been an American hotel chain) at times but it's definitely a common practice in the US yes.

Equally annoying is that these hotels will use some horrible third party captive portal that you need to re-log in to at regular intervals. I've often been disconnected because some arbitrary timer expired while I was in the middle of something important.

You will almost never see a small boutique hotel in the U.S charge for internet access or have a captive port however.

More precisely, it is a big corporate hotel chain thing for those properties that are more likely to host business people who can expense the cost.

It's less common than it used to be but it still happens in the US. As someone else said, mostly business chain type places although it's often waived if you belong to their loyalty club, book directly with the hotel, have a corporate rate, have a conference rate, etc. So it's nominally there for a fair number of hotels but I'm not sure the last time I actually ended up paying.

A lot also have a free base level and a additional-charge premium internet service that allows higher speed and/or more devices.

Fair enough. Though I find the base-level service has generally improved over the past few years. Personally, I never upgrade. If streaming video doesn't work, I always have local-stored video with me when I travel anyway.

It's a market segmentation thing. Hotels that cater to business travelers can charge extra because the employer will pay for it. Hotels that cater to families usually have free internet.

> Hotels that cater to business travelers can charge extra because the employer will pay for it.

More likely, IMO, hotels that cater to businesses have separate charges for internet because business (especially government) travel offices often have fixed (sometimes location-sensitive) caps on reimbursable lodging rates (but may, or may not, separately reimburse for other services during the stay with appropriate justification), so pulling non-core services out of the core rate means that more travellers will stay there.

Families, conversely—while price sensitive—will compare amenities and rarely have strict caps for the base lodging rate irrespective of what other services are included.

>"It's a market segmentation thing. Hotels that cater to business travelers can charge extra because the employer will pay for it."

What does this actually mean any more though to "cater to business travelers"? Once upon a time a hotel that catered to business travelers had a "business center" which meant there was an auxiliary room with a fax machine, a photo copier and a couple of PCs", that is largely anachronistic now though. And I think this kind of illustrates how stuck in a different era most of these hotels are.

Another response below correctly answers your question. In business hotels, rates are set to be eligible for corporate booking. Expensing the internet separately is a non-issue for these customers.

Definitely not only US thing.

I've seen this in many other places.

Happens quite often in Germany and I've also run across it in Spain.

Most of the major hotel chains in the US have phased out this practice.

You only find it nowadays in the top tier chains, and even then, they usually offer free internet to members of their frequent traveller programs.

Local governments always charge these kinds of rates, it's easy to get "doesn't cost me" taxes to help make up budget shortfalls. Same with sin taxes.

The hotels would find more success in lobbying city governments to levy a tax on airbnb stays rather than trying to get the hotel stay taxes reduced.

Bonus points if it's the same tax rate as us charged to hotels.

Extra bonus points if it's more than the regular hotel tax rates to compensate the municipality for the zoning changes caused by transients staying in residential areas.

Been waiting for someone to open a direct to door check in too. Just insert ID and credit card in a door that says Vacant, and boom you are in.

So fking sick of Corporatism.

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