I think that majority of people will solve it with finding a new job or maybe take a vacation. But, this is all about long term soltions. What I want to know, how to turn your motivation back right away, without changing a job or taking a vacation. Is it even possible?
If you want more money look at where you can save money (not eating out, buying generic products, etc.) and things you might be able to do on the side to earn more.
Or if you rather start applying for jobs and seeing what else is out there. You don't have to find a job today, just start looking.
If you want to have more energy find an exercise routine that works for you and start eating more vegetables and less sugar/bread. Take time to meditate or at least relax and clear your head. It's likely there's something buried in your head that is causing you to be demotivated.
If it's your perspective that needs tuning work on rewiring your brain. Stuff like replacing "this is hard" with "this will take time" or learning to be okay with being wrong/weak and asking for help when you need it.
If your work isn't fulfilling maybe talk with your co-workers or supervisor to see what can be done to make it better. If that's not realistic, maybe your job actually does suck and you need to go back to the first paragraph.
For me personally, I find setting aside time to untangle my brain helps the most. Sitting someplace and working on a posture or breathing exercise and really just putting some distance between me and my problems for a little while.
Usually after that my problems seem much smaller and more manageable.
In order to fix that I think the advice of "discipline" as mentioned in another comment below, is key.
I have so many goals on so many topics that I can't work on all of them every day. However, I started with one (exercise), and worked to be disciplined on that one, dedicating 1 1/2 hours, 6 days a week. I also added meditation (I practice buddhism) for 1/2 hour every day, where I clear my mind and focus on all of my goals.
After consolidating exercise and meditation, and feeling that it was already part of my routine, I added a second goal (studying). All of this while having a 9 to 5 day job, remember. I leveraged on apps for reminders, and habit trackers so I try not to "break the chain".
I went from being quite unmotivated, to being motivated on different areas, and that pushed me to find ways to be motivated at work.
Discipline goes a long way.
It's very clean and flexible.
The money wasn't prior number 1 for me, so probably it's not about the money.
What is really matters for me are people that surrounding me every day when I come to office.
Recently, we've been merged with another team. We where doing a great job before, a team spirit was so great that we where able to deliver better than others.
I literully was waking up with a huge smile on my face, because I knew that today we gonna do some awesome shit (no matter if it is bug fixing or performance improvements or new features).
Now, we have super huge team tons of projects and instead of goals that we are desire to achieve we have tasks that we have to close.
Now, I waking up with a sad face, because I know that today I'm going to "close the next issue", instead of "work on chalanging problem" that makes everyone in a team to feel proud of that.
Close the next issue ... in life ... and change jobs. Explain to the management why you're doing it first.
>If you want more money look at where you can save money (not eating out, buying generic products, etc.) and things you might be able to do on the side to earn more.
Oh dear god, the guy is depressed and now he has to stop buying his daily coffee too? And possibly a second job!?? You're an engineer, not a tollbooth operator. You're in one of the few fields that's actually growing and still pays worth a shit.
On the money front, take several queues from Ramit Sethi. Level up, do a cool side project with the latest React/Vue/Node and learn a bit about selling yourself.
Most engineers, even if they're really good, decide to take the humble, quiet route and demand a "fair pay". It's bullshit, it's a cop out, and if you're just 10% confident, you can increase your next jobs's salary with the money the other introverted engineers left on the table for you.
I mentioned that first because it's easy to fall into a lifestyle trap and think the only way to cope is to get a job that makes more. The formula for money is income minus expenses, so you always have two variables you can play with.
It also makes a nice mental segue for people into the topic of getting a new job, a topic which people can be adverse to. It creates a choice that seemingly wasn't there before.
FWIW I wouldn't be so quick to turn your nose up at side gigs.
I have a friend who picked up an old vinyl decal cutter and now makes a significant amount of his income by selling custom decal stickers for cars and windows and such to local businesses.
Similarly my neighbor does lawn aerating in the spring and sprinkler blowouts in the fall and considers it a refreshing break from his work as a PM.
I will talk big and vague in meetings about what I've accomplished. I'll talk about why what I'm building turned out to be more complicated than thought originally, and will take more time than allotted. If necessary will build interfaces that look like I'm doing the work when in fact I'm not.
Keep in mind, I don't do this maliciously to "steal" from the company. I do this because I have a certain amount of creative energy, and sometimes the well just runs dry. I can't think about complicated things (much of my job is architecting systems) and I have trouble focusing. Instead of pushing myself to burn out further, I understand it as part of a boom/bust cycle and take a break at work. Sometimes this lasts up to a week (even more in a few cases).
Then one day during the bust, I'll get the wind back in my sails and start up again.
This happens once every few months, although sometimes it can be triggered by a larger project. Sometimes I'll allot a week for something, not do anything on it, and then complete it all a day before it's due. When I say "not do anything" I mean I'm not actually coding, however I think my subconscious is mulling the problem over and I'll have an "AHA!" moment when needed.
Really, it helps to get good at bullshitting and buying yourself time. Practice, practice, practice. Once again, not maliciously, but for your own well-being. Pad your days out when giving estimates to people.
Hope that helps/is applicable to your situation.
I read it years ago and it really helped me disconnect the feeling of personal failing from those days/weeks of being a professional software developer where things just don't click.
"I just tend to bullshit my way through a work week.."
"..build interfaces that look like I'm doing the work when in fact I'm not."
"Sometimes I'll allot a week for something, not do anything on it, and then complete it all a day before it's due"
"it helps to get good at bullshitting"
Honestly, you don't sound professional. To me it's one thing to say, hey I'm burned out and I need to take a half day today. Or hey, I'm burned out, what if I worked on developer tooling for a few days to recharge my batteries.
But lying during meetings and distorting what you are working on are fireable offences, and even if you feel comfortable being that shameless and unethical on your own accord, why the heck would you give advice to someone else to do the same?
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm bewildered by this post.
> Honestly, you don't sound professional. > if you feel comfortable being that shameless and unethical
If you can work at 100% capacity at your job all the the time, great for you. If not, then you are either completely honest with your employers about it ("I didn't get anything done this week because I'm burned out") or you do the exact same things and are taking some sort of moral high ground in your post to feel superior.
It's fine if you don't agree with me giving honest advice, but keep the moral judgements to yourself when they are most likely based in hypocrisy.
EDIT: Also, just want to reiterate: this happens once in a while. I'm not doing this every day. Maybe you should re-read my post?
What's crazy to me is strategically lying to your employers IN ADVANCE, to set yourself up to not do any work. Especially given that you are posting it under your name.
However sometimes, I am just not able to work on that project for a few days, and end up doing it all in one day/night after having a few days to thinking about it. For me, a good chunk of the job is thinking about it. The coding just kind of flows after that. The problem is that the thinking gets delayed =]
Life isn't black and white. What if they're a 55 year old in tech? I could imagine someone being scared shitless of saying they're "burnt out"
Yes, there was some advice sprinkled in: ("Don't say this out loud"). Frankly though, my employers are quite happy with me. I do incredible work, and often beat my deadlines to deliver systems that are above and beyond the scope of what was originally intended.
I just have some off periods sometimes, and I have no trouble giving an honest account of my experience to someone who also shares the same problem and needs advice.
I would go further, and I see our work culture as what is wrong. Very few vacation days and having to work too much. Having to work for healthcare (if you're in the US). I would wish we took a step back, and actually thought what we would really want instead of having to work all the time.
Because please be real, your suggestion is absurd. Somebody is burned out so they should work on developer tooling for a few days? When somebody is burned out doing more work is not going to help.
My one and only point is that lying to your employer, to set yourself up so that you can somehow get through your low-points, means you are either in the wrong job or in the wrong profession. Be a professional and do your honest best, that's all.
I am happy for you that working on developer tooling is a break for you, but for some people this is never going to be the case. Some people might only be able to work 150/250 possible work days in a year sustainably. I think this advice is aimed at those individuals.
At the end of the day you have to watch out for yourself. If you work yourself to suicide the company is never going feel sympathy for you. This is a business transaction, and part of business is crafting a message that resonates with counter-parties. Companies themselves do this all the time, and it is perfectly standard.
Not everybody is still young in this field. Some of us have learned some "tactics" on how to handle with other humans. When I was younger and more inexperienced, I also thought that pure honesty would be rewarded with pure honesty from the other side. As long as you do things with the best of intentions, I guess some sensitivity to human conditions is a better long term approach..
I'm not really disagreeing with you, it's just that things are not so simple as you put them. If it's for you, great, but for the other 90%, it's not..
These are not suggestions that come from a person who knows what creative burnout is. It's becoming clear to me that you've never actually had a good, hard two week burnout with deadlines hanging over your head and bosses breathing down your neck. Good for you, I can tell you it sucks.
> means you are either in the wrong job or in the wrong profession. Be a professional and do your honest best, that's all.
I am a professional. I've been through acquisitions and I've been through corporate cubicle jobs. I've founded several companies...some have failed, some have sold. I've seen a lot and learned a lot along the way, and I know how to handle a lot of different situations beyond the simple, petty mantra of "honesty is good." There are times to be honest, and there are times to hold your cards close. The world can be a harsh place, and relying on nothing but honesty and hard work to get you through it is completely naive. Other than the work you promise your employers in your contract, you owe them, honesty included, absolutely nothing. This is how they view you: a set of terms. The minute you no longer make sense, they will push you out like a popped zit. Part of being a professional means projecting an image that makes you look indispensable. Are you the person who gets their shit done, or are you the person always whining about burnout?
I'm fairly convinced at this point that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. That's fine, but maybe it's a good time to stop talking.
Come back to me in 10 years and tell me how far your complete honesty with your employers has gotten you. You'll be able to. I sign my name to my statements.
As I said in one of the above comments, I was working on tooling for the week, and I was feeling good about it (I was motivated).
I find it bewildering that anyone would consider a completely understandable, honest testimony shameful and unethical.
I'm quite happy the parent shared this as a lot of developers feel quite a bit of pressure when slumps happen, thinking that it's abnormal when it's really quite common (and really for any type of creative work).
Or are you always equally productive, every day that you're at work?
Workers are expected to have 110% output all the time, and nowadays to even work on nights and weekends. Arguing for pure ethics on the worker side of things while ignoring the unrealistic expectations from the employer side seems almost delusional.
That said, I love my employers, love my job, and I know they love me and the work I do. I'm also a non-trivial shareholder in my company. I am incentivized to do well. But everything is a transaction, including the information we share with each other, and learning to optimize this transaction so it benefits both my overall work process and the results I give my employers is a fine line that I've learned to walk over 12 years in the professional world.
I know how to optimize my output without airing every little detail of my inner workings to the rest of the team.
Now that many of us aren't involved in the process of food and energy production, it seems that we have a good opportunity to live more and work less.
Unfortunately, no, although I'm sure it would be easy enough to dig up some articles. My knowledge of the anecdotal, based on conversations with people. That said, I've had the same conversation with many people! People are working harder for less. I've even heard of people who get passed up for promotions if they use any of their vacation time. As an aside, I've said in other parts of this conversation tree but I'll say it again: I love my employers and my job, so these statements don't reflect on them.
> it seems that we have a good opportunity to live more and work less.
This one also hits home to me, especially with the upcoming automation boom. We need to think of wealth redistribution channels that take a higher-level view than just "let the market decide." How will anyone have jobs if there is nothing left to do? Does all the wealth just funnel to those who own the automated systems?
UBI comes to mind. Many people really seem to hate it (labeling it as socialism even though it has nothing to do with workers' ownership of production) and write it off immediately as unfairly taxing the rich to give the poor a free ride. People really seem to defend the rich a lot in America, even though 100 years of a commoner's salary is pocket change to the people who would be hit hardest by a UBI. The term "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" couldn't be more true.
Or maybe there's another wealth distribution mechanism that could solve the problem too, but I'm not aware of any.
EDIT: just realized your response was to the parent comment, not me. Oh well, the points still stand =]
I wonder if you could share your burn out experience?
Taking half a day is a joke. Working on developer tooling sounds like a joke too. Your mentality doesn't seem like a good fit for a creative task.
"Bullshitting" is defined as "be misleading or deceptive" and the cost of this is borne not only by "management" (who presumably is in this constant mode of misleading or deceiving you), but by your peers who are dependent on you, or who are waiting for you to deliver.
As someone who gets burned out from time to time, I totally get it. It's tempting. I don't know the best general solution, especially if you're in an environment of distrust (rather than what superplussed assumes). But maybe explore some other paths? If you're in a job where in order to function, you have to deceive your management AND your peers, maybe you'd be happier in a different situation or company or role. To the OP: are you trapped in your situation? (It may very well be that you are, for instance, due to market conditions or visa situation, which sheds some light on why you're opting for deception.)
Also, not trapped in any way. I love my job and my employers. But sometimes stuck between a rock and a hard place...there are hard deadlines to meet, and high pressure to meet them, and working on developer tooling or just coming out and saying "I'm burned out, not going to work this week lol" won't fly.
I'm interested to hear how you would handle a high-pressure situation where people are expecting you to pull through and you just. can't. deliver. for 7 straight days with nobody else there who can step in and do your job. Your answer is to "explore other paths." Do you have suggestions? (I am truly asking, not trying to back you into a corner).
The easy answers of "find a lower pressure job!" are bullshit, and anyone who suggests that knows it. It's a morally superior brush-off to a difficult problem.
What do you do/say to stay ethically "correct" while not jeopardizing your image/position and simultaneously gaining the understanding of your peers and those who are driving you to complete your tasks?
I can't see the boss being fine with this more honest way of handling it either.
The only other option is self-medication. That is only advisable if you truly have no other options but to keep your head to the grindstone, and you will have to deal with the inevitable fallout of self-medication, which ain't pretty. So only turn to that as a last resort, like if you're compelled (by legal or financial obligations) to continue, where the consequences of stopping outweigh the major drawbacks of self-medication.
This is why it's so important to achieve a low cost of living and some savings, as it expands your options when you face serious burnout (i.e. you can quit your job without having another one lined up, or take a much lower paying job, etc.).
I like my work, and I like tech, but if I loved it, I wouldn't need to be paid to do it. Cut off my funding for it, and I'll probably continue to do it, but at a totally different path and pace as to what I get paid to do.
There's no need to love what you do, or try to get people to commit out loud to doing so.
Amen, I've often joked I'd program 40hrs a week if basic income was a reality I'd just work on open source/projects that benefited people directly instead.
I don't love what I'm working on (or even like it) but I love programming and so on balance I get to do something I love for money - not a bad deal most of the time.
I've done the minimum wage thing (did it for 8-9 years in my late teens-mid twenties) and the other side of the coin is pretty horrible.
This makes no sense to me.
It's "natural" to feel how you feel about your work, whether positive or negative (or oscillating). There's nothing un-natural about loving/liking your work either, which makes statements like this meaningless and unhelpful.
While this may be common or anadoctal and not everyone can be so lucky. But I legitimately enjoy, like, and even sometimes love my job and work. Major parts of it I'd likely be doing as a side hobby for free and even after a days work I toy with the idea of doing a similar side personal project similar to my work.
This might not be true every day for me but more days than not.
Though I do fully acknowledge these types of jobs are extremely rare and it's unlikely most won't ever find. But they do exist for some.
o Force 8h+ of sleep (or at least lying flat) for a 1-2 weeks, if not permanently.
o Force daily exercise mix for 1-2 weeks, if not permanently. Each day: either short and intense OR long and slow. I avoid short and intense on consecutive days.
o Really good teeth and gum care to enhance QOL and sleep.
o Fasting (water only) while at work.
o Active vacation: 2-4 days at a resort/camp where you can simplify your day to "move or eat" for all waking hours, and sleep in a decent bed for 8+h. Might want to go "screen free" as well.
Good luck!
I'd argue it's the most important thing you can do in order to sustain that level of effort for any amount of time. You can't take care of anything else if you don't take care of yourself, physically and mentally.
5 days always worked for me before. Is there such a thing as permanent burn out?
At least there is hope that this may not be permanent
2.) Recently even pomodoro was not helping me. I think I had a project that had poorly written specs, and was also complicated to boot. It was very hard and I struggled a lot for several weeks. I tried writing down a visual map, trying to get a better mental model of it but had trouble grasping it still. I could feel my ability to focus and be motivated starting to go down over the weeks as I got more frustrated with the project not moving forward well. I felt dumb. What worked for me is going home and programming something I cared about instead for a half day on the weekend. I also did some tutorials that I could definitely succeed at. I feel like it rejuvenated my ability to focus and got rid of my frustration, I was finally getting things accomplished again and learning new things, which is a big motivator for me when programming. I like the "achievement" of completing things and I had not been getting that for weeks. I came back to work feeling like less of an impatient idiot and finished the project rather quickly from there.
Data + Process = Results
Data is your current job.
Process is what you do with that data.
Most people will want to change the Data; that is, change job, change career, take vacation, etc.
Sounds like you're asking how to change Results without changing the Data, right?
Simple. Keep the Data the same but change the only other available variable: the Process...
Keep going to work. Keep doing the job. But change how you think about it: "How can I use this current situation as an investment toward my future?"
Consider multiple solutions to every work assignment, their way and a better way. You can still implement their way while learning a better way you can implement on the side or later.
Consider every assignment an "instance". Come up with a "class" of solutions for that instance. Instead of writing one solution, write a "mini-framework" that would solve this problem AND many similar problems. Again, you don't have to implement your elegant solution now, but once it's in your brain, it's yours forever.
Find time to talk to your users! Find out what they hate that's not being addressed (and there's probably plenty). Then work on that stuff on the side. Do it at work now and become a hero or don't do it at work now and become your own hero at another time or place.
Always be thinking, "How can I use this project to better myself?" Get creative. You may surprise yourself with the possibilities.
Most programmers struggle finding ideas. You have the opposite problem. You're surrounded by problems desperately needing solutions but not getting them. They're just not on your radar because you're so unhappy being unmotivated in your environment. Focus on the unassigned possibilities while you're in the muck. You may not realize it now, but where you're already at is the best place to find them.
I hated my last job, was thoroughly miserable and finally realized that I had ended up in a state of "learned helplessness." Your approach would have helped me tremendously.
Thankfully, I've had some time for growth and introspection since leaving that company.
I'll still get frustrated and demotivated at times, but I will come back to it with a feeling that I am at least trying to work on something important and challenging even when things don't go right or they get particularly hard.
As an example, I spent a few years working on ASIC design for high def video encoding and decoding (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray). Super interesting and challenging. Wow I don't care about it's impact on the world though.
I operate this way, because when I've stayed at places where my motivation began to wane, invariably, it then began swiftly descend, and then plummet incomprehensibly. The worst part was never going in to the office I had come to feel less than nothing about, it was bringing the lack of motivation home, because it inevitably followed me into my personal life, and stripped me of the desire to do the things I love.
That's where I draw the line.
Everyone is different of course. I'm sure you have good reasons for staying, and I sincerely wish you best figuring it out as someone who has been shackled very firmly with some golden-handcuffs to roles that ultimately offered me nothing more than big checks, and a sense of futility.
- take a break from day to day development to do some strategic research: for example, a new technology that could be helpful to the company, etc.
- switch teams, or take on a different role within your team
- be on the lookout for anything, even something very small, that does motivate you; and figure out how to do more of that. you can't control what motivates you, but you can recognize when it is (and isn't) happening, and adjust.
Some things that have worked for me personally in the past:
- Going through a book like SICP, 7 languages in 7 weeks, etc.
- Organizing a hackday for my department.
- Since I am motivated by making things more efficient, taking a week to focus on better test automation and feeling the reward of making my colleagues' lives a bit better.
Ragrdig what you've said. >Since I am motivated by making things more efficient, taking >a week to focus on better test automation and feeling the >reward of making my colleagues' lives a bit better.
That's what I exactly did last week for example. I've been building a tool for performance testing and automation and I was feeling good. Now, I'm done with this and I have to get back to my daily routines, which not making me happy. Moreover, one of my good teammate is leaving and that's just makes everything even more worse :)
Programming is a craft, and one that you can find meaning and fulfillment in. Mastering your craft is an exciting and motivating endeavor if you can take the time to do it well. But if you are forced to write "just get it done" code all day it will suck the energy from your soul.
If you are in a job where you simply cannot take the extra time to write elegant, interesting, well designed code... Then it may be worth looking for a new job. Find a company where the deadline isn't yesterday, and where you can foster a pattern of writing excellent code, and improving your craft.
Ask HN: What are your sources of inspiration and motivation?
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8409926
I think it is very helpful to write down your thoughts and feelings to make tangible the ideas in your head that you are consciously aware of or being subconsciously influenced by. This also may "free up" your thoughts once they are "excised" and transferred to text. If you can write down the negatives, the positives, then work on framing or using a different perspective on the scenario, you may find a new way to approach your work.
If you decide that you're working in order to fill a hole in your should and get a sense of satisfaction and contentment, find it outside of work (family, church, volunteering, etc).
Depending on that answer the recommendations will likely be very different.
Discipline gets you doing what needs to be done. Discipline is more directly addressable.
My intuition is yes, sometimes.
Anybody can work on their "discipline muscles"; it'll be easier for some than others.
1) Can I find some way to automate it by building some interesting abstraction to the problem?
2) Can I use some new tool or technology to increase my skill set? This might even be a non-technical skill in some cases.
3) Can I write a blog about the problem and how I approached it and how I solved the problem. Doing this will help to market my skill set or help me make connections with other interesting people.
Think about the people you meet and if you really envy the career path or life path someone else has taken. Maybe you should follow that track?
In my case, I really like my job. All my teammates are great people, and I like working with them. Everything seams nicely. But my problem is that I don't work hard enough, (It's not that I'm actually working hard but want to push myself more, I would be very happy if that was the case), I really don't.
Do you have any suggestions?
Avoid enterprisey software as working with that can be soul destroying (Salesforce and Marketing cloud integrations have been the most demotivating things I have worked on in a long time).
(Having said that, I think its time for me to learn something new myself as I have been using the same tech for 6 years now - Django is still great, but I need the same sort of thing for other areas of development).
Seriously, coffee is the universal motivator. Anything that can't be fixed with coffee will have to be addressed at the source. Why aren't you feeling motivated?
Not immediately, mind you. Those first couple of weeks were rough.
Going on a weekend trip might be enough of a vacation.
You only have a problem when that does not work. In that case, you need to ask yourself what is really bothering you about the job, and talk to your employer about fixing it. Often, open communications about what is wrong will work, problems can be fixed, and things will improve. And if not, maybe you do need a new job.
But finding a new job or taking a vacation is a common answer because it sometimes is the correct answer. I'm not saying it should be the first answer. But don't try so hard to avoid those answers that you make yourself miserable, either.
Oh, wait, you're saying that a new job or going on vacation is a "long term solution" ?? No, sorry, that's really a short term solution.
You're asking for even SHORTER TERM solutions? Get drunk.
Long term but pithy answer: Love and Exercise. Make serious time for taking care of your body and connecting with others in your life. You'll feel better. Seriously.
But my actual solution is basically putting my mindset in a zero position (i don't even work for this company) and imagine what I would love to do right now. Then figure out if this company can provide this activity. In my case what I want to do are startups and learning about the different aspects of a company so while I'm a developer i actually go out and sell our product. at least try to. or do some marketing. or team mangement.
I feel If I leave the job I'll just follow my survival instincts and not solve the real problem.
Then take a look at things I'd like to have: bigger house, better car, funny gadgets. Then I know that I must work if I want to have it.
Finally, take a look at the grass from all around the globe. Places I'd like to visit, to live, places where I would have the same job and earn much less. Then I know if I'm in the right place or not.
You also might just be burned out, or bored. In which case a vacation, switching things up, or even a job or lifestyle change may be in order.
https://www.coursera.org/learn/happiness
Then re-evaluate your life.
Sometimes vacations are very demotivating. If the work situation is bad, it is nice to get away for a week, but then after a week you're right back in it again, and it can seem worse than before, in contrast to your pleasant vacation.
Jokes aside (or was it a joke at all?), you need a goal. Implementing a good feature and improving the software, reaching a position, earn money for a greater good, etc. Something that injects passion into your daily life.
Quitting is the hardest thing to do. You are not physically capable of quitting. It takes either a catastrophic event or large amounts of unhappy time to force someone to quit. People don't wake up one day and decide to quit their jobs. Facing a job search, less income, explaining to new places why you left, dealing with people when quitting, figuring out health insurance, explaining to your family, social pressure to have a job, and more, all huge problems that prevent anyone from just upping and quitting.
You aren't going to solve it, just like most other people working in tech eventually stop caring about trying to solve it. Do you think people working for garbagy startups care about that product or their jobs? In an ideal world we could all get perfect job satisfaction, but there's no way to guarantee that or optimize for that, even if you like the company.