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Comment by lokedhs | Hacker News Reader

I have worked in Sweden, and I would like to offer a counter point.

I don't think we disagree that the reason the hiring process is so involved in Sweden is because it's so hard to fire someone. This results in a situation where the company does everything they can to minimise the risk of hiring the wrong person.

The downside of this is that companies will not take any chances when it comes to hiring people. I believe this is the reason why I have seem some really bad diversity (both cultural and gender) in the Swedish tech industry, compared to other countries where I have worked.

If it's easier to fire someone, it's also easier to take a chance on someone that might night be the "perfect candidate" at first glance, but perhaps he or she will shine if given the opportunity.

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I work in the UK and it's similar. Except we have a lot of diversity due to a vibrant contractor (at-will) market. Which the Tories are trying desperately to destroy, for some reason.

Permanent employees are basically impossible to fire. It's a mixed bag I think. On the one hand, there is a large social benefit to having such gov enforced job security. On the other hand, it drives down wages, and hurts companies that get stuck with a really bad employee. At least as workers we can choose to earn more money and take the riskier route via contracting.

Contractors are especially needed in unionized permanent companies - where contractors/3rd party companies are needed just to get things moving in the direction management wants.

Scabs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker

Not in a strike scenario. Its just that I've been in a unionized environment and while it has many benefits, if the employee doesnt feel like doing something management wants - they simply wont do it.

Dont agree with the direction, not something they are familiar with.... they like things just the way they have been used to these last few decades.

Total bollocks in the UK you can let a fulltime employee go at any time in the first 2 years and its fairly easy to fire after that you just have to follow a simple procedure.

I would disagree that the UK is exactly the same as Scandinavia (having worked in both). Maybe for general companies around the country but definitely not for startups. I have seen many get fired for no particular good reason. They might be arranged via some theater of made up performance reviews then fired, but job security in the startup scene in London at least is a lie. But also those startups get a reputation and suffers for it.

Which is why I am now a contractor in London. No theater. They can let me go on short notice ethically and legally, and I am fine with that. Mostly as I am financially fine with it.

"Permanent employees are basically impossible to fire."

That really isn't true at all - you can be fired for pretty much anything in the first two years and after that the process is pretty straightforward.

I've never seen a company fail to get rid of someone they didn't want working there - one way or another.

It's harder to do in Europe, but it's still possible. Especially, as you say, if there's management determination that the person has to go.

You really can't generalize across Europe

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