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Comment by dgudkov | Hacker News Reader

I couldn't stop feeling like this page is nothing else but a promotion for "Model S" which is "superior and now" rather than the other car which is "inferior and 1 year later". Price would've been the biggest (and only) reason for "Model 3" but it's not shown on the page. Added extra details for "Model 3" is a nice trick to boost virality of the promotion aimed at its target audience -- potential Model 3 buyers. Well done, Tesla marketing. Well done.

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I think this is in reaction to the confusion over Model 3 being the "next version" of the Model S. People might be holding off on buying the S because they think that the 3 is better.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/845278449811939328.

When asked why he named it Model 3 in that thread, his response was: "Because I was a dumb idiot and didn't realize at the time that it would cause confusion".

This mistake seems to have stuck with him -- he made a joke about it two months later when talking about naming his boring machines: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/860378029515718660

It is should have been Model E, like it was originally intended.

But I heard that some people didn't like the idea of S/E/X...

Musk liked that joke but Ford has the "Model E" trademark

No, it was because Ford holds the trademark for Model E: http://insideevs.com/ford-motor-company-filed-for-model-e-tr...

Why not drop Model from the name? Porsche 911 vs Porsche Model 911. Tesla S vs Tesla Model S.

To me that looks more like a mistake from Porsche than an idea to replicate

I set it as no more a mistake than "Boeing 747" is over "Boeing Model 747" or "Mazda 626" or "Nissan GTR"

But "Tesla S" doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely.

Turns into 'tessless'

Ironically, the Porsche 911 was originally supposed to be the 901, but Citroen owned 901 so Porsche had to rename.

Someone needs to put together a history of vehicle naming conventions. Like things in the military, it's kind of fascinating how things wind up getting called what they do.

That, or they could try switching up the descriptor:

Tesla Type T

Tesla Version V

Tesla Mark III M

Tesla Ausf. A

So now we have S3X, which is much more 'elite' for the tech crowd ;)

Future Y crossover makes it "S3XY". I love a billionaire with a cheeky sense of humor.

Just wait for the Tesla Pickup... Model I ;)

I S3XY

Then the next version of the roadster... the Model M (play off BMW M series...ubiquitous already for performance)

IM S3XY

Model H

HI S3XY

>>People might be holding off on buying the S because they think that the 3 is better.

But model 3 is $35k vs Model S @ $80k-$120k. These feel like two very, very different markets.

You're assuming everyone is smart enough to realize that

This might be just about the most awkward product marketing page I've come across in my memory. I personally probably will never be able to afford a model S. So I'd essentially be their market for the 3. But looking at how they talk about it, they've pretty much unsold me on it. The worst is this paragraph:

"Model 3 is designed and built as a mass market, affordable electric vehicle. Although it will be our newest vehicle, Model 3 is not “Version 3” or the most advanced Tesla. Like Model S, it is designed to be the safest car in its class."

The actual sales page for the Model 3, https://www.tesla.com/model3, does a much better job at selling it. It could be argued that anyone looking for a comparison page between the two models would be someone considering the Model S, in which case it makes sense for them to focus on upselling it. In other words, you're not the audience for that page.

"New and better but not available yet" is the classic marketing error known as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

True, but in this case they're intentionally trying to Osborne themselves.

in this case, model 3 clearly isn't supposed to be better.

That's exactly what it is. They have more than enough reservations for the Model 3 at this point, and have no reason to try for more until they work through most of the backlog. For someone looking at a Tesla, they would much rather get $70,000+ from them now than $35,000+ from them in a year or two. Add to this the fact that a lot of people have apparently managed to interpret Model 3 as an upgrade to Model S and you get a page like this.

"For someone looking at a Tesla, they would much rather get $70,000+ from them now than $35,000+ from them in a year or two."

If they want to sell more Model S, perhaps they should go check out a bottom of the line, zero options 3series/A4/CClass and see if they can bring their interior details and quality up, from below, to match those lower end cars.

Also, style and taste continue to march on ... large flat panels in your face, circa 2005, were a sign of luxury and sophistication. In 2017 it is the absence of panel displays that are a sign of luxury and sophistication.

They're not particularly competitive on the interior front, for a variety of reasons.

1) They're still selling as many model S vehicles as thye can make. Perhaps the market will soften after Model 3 introduction or increase on Tesla's manufacturing capacity.

2) Any heavy add-on increases the weight of the vehicle and decreases the rated distance on a single electric charge. From their point of view it's better to let the aftermarket for interior accessories to develop, as then any add-on is at owner's discretion.

3) People who shop on interior will still go to their local Mercedes, BMW or Lexus dealer. Even other luxury brands (Infiniti, Cadillac, Acura) have had a tough time competing with decades of experience.

I don't think 1) is entirely true. The fact that they're pushing the S over the 3 like this would suggest that they wouldn't sell out their full production capacity naturally. Of course, it's far easier to put up a couple of web pages than to redesign the car, and they have a long way to go before they have to think about such radical changes.

Yeah. I reserved the Model 3 a while ago, but I've been leaning more and more toward just canceling it and getting a Model S. Even though I can afford it, it's just a lot of money for someone like me who isn't really a "car person" anyway.

That's what is terrific about the Model S. One does not have to be a 'car person' to really appreciate that vehicle. I would say that if you are already considering it, go ahead and get the S. You will most certainly not regret it.

I'm not a car person and I appreciate why people like high-end cars. I had a lot of fun a couple years back tooling around BMW's track inSouth Carolina. However, because I'm not a car person, I also can't see paying $100K for a car given other ways I could spend the money.

You generally don't need to be a car person to appreciate a luxury vehicle. Not sure how the model S is different from any other luxury vehicle, who's target audience is not car people, but just people with higher disposable income for cars.

You could get a used Model S for a little more than a new Model 3. The autopilot won't be as good, but it will have better performance and free supercharging. Plus it's already available.

Yeah, full price was not on the next page either - Click "Reserve" and they ask for $1000, but with no indication of the final price!

Full price is on the model 3 page at https://www.tesla.com/model3

$35,000

What? Not $34,999?

Interestingly, that extra dollar will pay an entire salary for an engineer at Tesla in a year or two.

Starting at $35,000. Nobody has any idea what power windows and an air conditioner are going to cost.

This is an important distinction.

Power windows and air conditioning are standard in practically every car now, right? I just got a 2017 Honda Civic EX (lowest end) which is ~$20000 and it how power windows and AC

So are auto transmissions, but some trim levels for some models don't have them. Another poster in this thread claimed that a TESLA sales rep cited no passenger-side AC in the Model 3.

The point of trim is bundling useless overpriced crap you don't want to pay for with stuff that you do want to pay for. This is a huge money-maker for auto manufacturers, and I would be shocked if TESLA takes a pro-customer position on it.

Keep in mind the reservation is refundable.

Same. After reading had no interest in model 3 as it screamed "Unworthy" and somehow not comparable to the what, 5 year old model s?

Not really thinking well done as I feel like it misses and possibly alienates both markets.

And 2 displays wow! What a premium feature.

Call it the way I seat it. /sorry

They seem to have broke all of Edward Tufte's rules about scaling graphics to match data. The stopwatches, the max range ruler, the screen sizes.

At least the first two intentionally mislead. The should have made the last one more damaging too!

>> I couldn't stop feeling like this page is nothing else but a promotion for "Model S" which is "superior and now"

Yep, the first thing I noticed was the pictures with the number of inches being compared.

This is almost disgustingly obvious. There are no prices listed on the page, and as far as I can tell they are comparing a base Model 3 to the highest-spec Model S. It screams "oh yeah we've got that Model 3 thing, but you can't buy it for 14 months. look at this really cool Model S!"

I think the whole point of it is to say "The Model 3 is NOT the next-gen Model S." The problem with the naming scheme (that Elon admitted was dumb) is that people assume it's the next version. In reality the Model S is a BMW, while the Model 3 is a Ford. They aren't even the same class of car.

Doesn't the 3 allude to that it should compete with the BMW 3 series?

That wasn't their public intention, but you have to believe it was talked about given that the BMW 3 is, depending on the year, the best selling luxury sport sedan in the world.

The thing is, I don't even think that's an issue. Some people just want a Tesla. They don't care what model it is. Until the 3,they would have had to get the super. And some did. Now a lot of those same people will just get the 3. They're perceived as being equal in terms of Tesla-Ness, which is what Tesla buyers seem to care most about. So how is the S supposed to maintain its sales when now it has to compete with the 3?

Tesla has to convince people that they actual want an S. Not just want a Tesla.

Even calling the Model S a BMW is stretching given, for the price, how bad the interior is, how average the performance is (outside of the P100D), and how poor their customer support and QA is.

Tesla has no comparison in the auto industry. The Model S is a $35k upcharge, minimum, over comparable traditional automobiles, just for the electric powertrain. The Model 3 might get that number down to $15k. Nothing we've seen about the Model 3 looks like it should start at $35k, beside the hype around electric powertrain.

My question is: Who can get that number down to $5k first? Tesla? Or BMW, Toyota, or GM?

Wow. So pleased to see there are not a ton of Tesla fanboys on here. I feel like I'm in good company.

What are you talking about. There are a ton of musk fanboys here.

He says that we'll have fully self driving cars this year, astronauts on Mars in 2022, human comouter nueral interface in 2025, and a settlement with cheap tunnels ok Mars in 2030.

These guys are going to have a decade of disappointment and hyperbole thrown at them.

I think this is a nice comparison. Obviously the S is going to be better but maybe some people are confused and see the model 3 as being the successor. This puts it into better perspective.

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