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Comment by mirimir | Hacker News Reader

Some of us see P2P cryptocurrencies as a way to opt out of government regulation. Governments can't regulate entities that maintain strong anonymity. Most vulnerable are asset movements to and from meatspace. But there are well-known methods for dealing with that.

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It's... like you're repeating exactly the objection I mentioned and not addressing the core problem with it.

Oh no, that is what you just did. Ok then, carry on.

Yes, I'm arguing that these rules and regulations are the core problem.

you cant have your cake and eat it. you cant just opt out of regulation and not all the other things. you would litterally have to start your own nation from scratch.

Do you think people like Rosa Parks should have started their own nation? [0]

What an incredibly frightening way of thinking.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks

Rosa Park fought to get equal rights. You want to have privileges. The fact that you don't see that is the only frightening thinking here.

What we want is the right to be left alone. It's a form of nonviolent resistance.

Wanting to be left alone is exactly a privilege.

Why do so many libertarian dudes suddenly all want to be Rosa Parks? And how did they miss the part where she was arrested and convicted, as part of a coordinated activist effort to change specific laws?

She didn't just break the law and expect there to be no consequences. That's not how non-violence resistance works.

True. But it's not in meatspace. It's primarily online. And it's not really a nation. Voluntary associations only.

What you don't get is the ability to fight wars in meatspace. But long term, that's not such a bad thing. You'd need to focus on asymmetric cyber warfare. Maybe drone armies, if it came to that.

It doesn't matter whether it's online. If you want to be able to use it in meatspace for meatspace things then it will be regulated.

> entities that maintain strong anonymity

An impossible task for the vast majority of people. Especially since bitcoin is not anonymous.

> An impossible task for the vast majority of people

I freelance ;)

> ...bitcoin is not anonymous

Bitmixer.io / bitmixer2whesjgj.onion

foggeddriztrcar2.onion / foggedddxlunnaaa.onion [Bitcoin Fog]

grams7enufi7jmdl.onion/helix/light

See https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/advanced-privacy-and-ano... (somewhat outdated, but hey).

And governments have all reason to believe that when people try hiding money streams from them it is for something illegal like tax evasion, money laundering, etc.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like to live in a world with even more powerful criminal forces.

As I see it, the most powerful criminals control governments. And then they get to define whatever they don't like as criminal. The game is rigged. But fighting is pointless. It's better to just walk away.

The problem with no- or low-state solutions is that you remove accountability to the people that you even have in places like China.

I don't see a lot of "accountability to the people" anywhere. Just bullshit, propaganda and exploitation. The truly wealthy own everything, and the rest of us are pawns at best.

It's been that way for thousands of years. I see the Internet as the best shot for transforming that. Because it can empower individuals, permit free and private association, create space for people to be free of coercion, and so on. Time will tell.

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