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ars

The world is a circle.

I figured, maybe I'll port some basic program for linux, so I did a search of basic in debian and found:

http://packages.debian.org/lenny/basic256

Click on the homepage link and:

http://www.basic256.org/

Perfect! I'm about to write to the author of the post and then I notice:

Check out "Why Johnny Can't Code," the article that inspired BASIC-256.

LOL

Someone should update the title to point out that the article is from 2006, and the link above is the answer.

(The actual link on debian is http://kidbasic.sourceforge.net/en/index.html but that no longer works, so I adjusted it.)

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I'm the original author of Basic-256, if you have any suggestions, please let me know.

Most people seem to be pleased with it, but I'm starting to wonder if it's the right approach; maybe it's the C64 and not BASIC that's the key. I recently downloaded a C64 emulator and the "Programmer's Reference Guide" that I had as a kid; you almost have to try NOT to understand how a computer works in order to not get something out of a C64 and that guide.

Right away they delve into changing bytes in memory to draw on the screen, and I remembered drawing sprites on graph paper and figuring out what the binary representation would be. I was in second and third grade at the time, figuring this out on my own.

There is something about the C64. It's at the perfect spot of advanced and simple that makes learning easy.

I don't think it's the C64 - I started on a Laser-128 (an apple clone). I didn't start with graphics though, I started with a guess the number game (computer picks, and you guess and it tells you higher or lower).

I still remember the day I learned about strings in variables - that simplified my program quite a bit from a mass of hard coded strings combined with gosub.

If I have just one suggestion it's to increase your visibility. About a year ago I actually searched quite a bit for program exactly like yours. And didn't find it. I eventually found an online BASIC emulator in a browser.

> maybe it's the C64 and not BASIC that's the key.

_why would have kind of agreed. It's not about BAISC, it's that everything was really accessable.

http://wiki.github.com/steveklabnik/hacketyhack/the-little-c... http://wiki.github.com/steveklabnik/hacketyhack/the-hackety-...

I have 2 suggestions:

1) How hard would it to write a JavaScript/HTML port of it? I don't see why anyone in the modern day and age should need to download and install a program to play with BASIC. It should be possible to interpret BASIC directly in JavaScript, all within the browser. I don't believe any server round trips should even be necessary.

2) Have you let David Brin know about your effort? He seems to be doing talks on the subject still as recently as '09, so he might be able to at least mention it to people.

Oops, nevermind, silly suggestion. It's already been done, you just have to Google "basic interpreter javascript" to find it.

http://www.calormen.com/Applesoft/ - Starts right at the interpeter

http://www.ngbasic.com/ - Has more of the classic BASIC feel, opening a window that looks like ye olde BASIC interpreter, but requires two clicks before you can find it.

http://www.quitebasic.com/ - Also starts at the interpreter, but with a more complicated example program.

Unfortunately it's a GUI application. I have a very strong feeling that if you can't force your kids out of the windowed OS environment, the temptation to just go fritter away their time on some Flash game will be too strong. Who's young children haven't already been introduced to online gaming before BASIC or Python or Bash?

Like many people here, I learned to program in a windowed OS environment. I learned to write windowed applications because I wanted to write real programs. I never had an interest in doing anything with Flash or the like.

I think all it takes is the right personality and the right inclination. The idea that you have to subvert modern technology to teach kids how to program is ludicrous; the kids who actually want to learn this stuff are going to learn it.

I agree, but it wouldn't be a bad thing to make it more accessible to them. I started with mIRC scripts myself, and that was because it was just so easy to get to it.

As a 19 year old kid thats trying to learn web programming right now (After becoming reasonably proficient in java first), I can tell you first hand that there is a pretty big barrier to entry. It's frankly just hard to know what all the moving parts that you are supposed to include as padding actually do.

And it goes without saying that the "black boxes" or function calls that make OO programming or functional programming so efficient to do in groups are hell on someone learning to code.

In order to get people involved, its much better to make it easier instead of telling people to try harder.

The best way to learn web programming is to start with the fundamentals. I would recommend to pick a technology stack, like RoR or whatever, and start reading the basic tutorials, but as soon as you get to a part which references HTML DOM, HTTP, CSS, or Javascript, diverge into those subjects, learning all you can about them, until you are either satisfied or bewildered, then come back to the original tutorial. The key is to not let all the time-saving effort that has gone into the frameworks prevent you from learning the fundamentals, otherwise they'll always seem like black boxes.

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