Uber rolls out in-app tipping
washingtonpost.com
washingtonpost.com
What I loved about Uber when it started was there was no ambiguity. Prices were predictable, as were wait times.
Zero cognitive overhead. No guilt or internal debate.
Over time every little thing I loved about Uber was taken away in the name of lowering prices. Agitation about driver wait times. Wildly fluctuating cost of rides. Wildly varying rider wait times. Drivers canceling undesirable trips.
And now tips.
It's just one little thing, but it's the death of what I valued in their service.
What if instead of all these nitpicking changes, they kept the fares a bit higher and simply paid the drivers a bit more? I guess in their calculus that was unsustainable.
So basically the people who were penny pinching trying to get the cheapest rides drove lower prices so now I will tip (probably too well) and underwrite those same people who will likely also not tip because they will decide it is optional.
And Uber is... gone (from my phone). I hate tipping with a passion and despite Uber's questionable practices I was prepared to use it instead of Lyft based solely on tipping.
So now I, as a user, have to concern myself with issues like: is the driver actually getting the tip? Or is Uber taking a cut? Does this mean Uber is paying the driver less because they can now get a tip?
I don't want to have to concern myself with issues like this. I really don't.
I'm glad it's summer, less taxis and more biking!
Tipping < not tipping
Uber + not tipping > Lyft + tipping
Uber + tipping < Lyft + tipping
I was so glad to see one Lyft driver still signed on, when the conductor came and told me we'd be at the station in 20 minutes. When he got me home with no hassle, I felt compelled to leave a $10 tip. I've never been a heavy user of either service, but I believe the Lyft app has had this feature for a long time.
Because this guy personally saved me from a $20 cab ride, at least, when all of the other cars had left the map, it was easily worth $10 extra. Now writing about it I think I should have tipped $20! I shudder to think what I would have done if I had to depend on Uber instead, where the price only goes up when there is a surge in demand.
(Probably would have taken a cab, I'm sure it's not as bleak as I'm making it out to be, but the fact is Uber drivers all went to sleep at 12:00, for some reason, and Lyft stayed up. I wonder if it was because of tips? To Insure Prompt Service! I don't know if this is a major difference for the drivers, but when I've asked people who drive for both services off-hand which one they prefer, I've never heard any of them answer Uber. It's always Lyft.)
In my case if they all went to sleep, it's not that the demand was low... if that last guy goes to sleep, or someone else calls him first, it's the supply that's low. There's no surge pricing, if they all go to sleep, you'll have to start walking across town! They're not calling someone in for surge pricing, you're waiting for them to wake up or you're calling a cab if you're lucky for definitely at least twice as much (and then of course, with absolutely none of the convenience of Uber or Lyft)
This guy wasn't just staying up for a tip! He was literally on vacation from the corndog factory, where he worked 3rd shift maintaining the machines that they use to make corndogs, normally up every day til at least 5 or 7am, so he was going to be awake at this time anyway, I guess I just got lucky. (He almost crashed the car in a roundabout on the way, I still gave him a perfect rating anyway, I was so grateful for the ride.)
I also asked him about the corndogs and he said that it was kind of disgusting the number of corndogs they actually make every day, and to think that means people must be eating them at about the same rate? Millions of damn corndogs.
Anyway about the Lyft, the delay happened very late in the train ride, I was supposed to arrive at about 12:00 midnight, but I didn't get there til at least 12:45. We were stopped 20 miles outside of town, where there's nothing, in the middle of Northern Indiana... so scheduling a ride is basically right out for me, I don't know when I'll be arriving until it's about 12:30am. I've got basically nobody to call.
I spent about two hours nervously eyeing the real-time maps, watching the small number of idle Uber cars and the last of them going offline at 12, and the overall number of idle Lyft cars in the entire city dwindle from 4, to 2, almost instantly at 12:00 like they turned into pumpkins, and then down to 1 as it drew closer to 12:15. I'm talking nobody, in at least a 45 minute radius. Thankfully, this one guy stayed up! Unless I got played by the Lyft app, this was an emotional rollercoaster. I mean I've never been out west like this, I spent the whole day traveling from Utah in and out of Airports, and train stations, after already another solid week of traveling during the prior week and now I was so ready to get home.
I simply can't express this tale of that one awesome guy who stayed awake for Lyft enough times, or in the fullness of its glory. But only to emphasize the point, that I was able to express my gratitude in the form of a tip after leaving the vehicle. The only tip that seemed appropriate was about 133%, the fare was only $7, so, $10! I just assumed the app would let me do it, I didn't try to fumble with cash; I have used Uber and Lyft combined a total of maybe 5 times before. I didn't even know you couldn't tip with Uber (at that time.)
Probably was the only person on that train who needed to order a ride from Lyft. Most everyone on that train was a sleeper, headed for parts of New York, and everyone else (total of maybe 8 people) looked like they had pre-arranged rides with family.
This reminds me of the time that Donald Trump told everyone he hasn't heard any criticism of the DAPL, and meanwhile there is a massive #TurnOnYourPhone campaign aimed at him on Twitter, because the White House comment line had been closed since he took office.
Shutting down the conduit does not magically erase the demand! The demand is still there, it's just not visible anymore.
Even if the cashier (at, say, retail location) says "feel free not to tip" that does little to make me feel less shamed.
Tipping should be for exemplary service, not routine service. That's why adding it to Uber is stupid: I expect fast pickup, nice drivers, and safe delivery to my destination for the price I pay. If I don't tip will it be an extra long drive? An extra long wait? Will I lose a limb along the way?
It'd be like being asked to tip at a fast food restaurant: I don't expect to have to tip to get my food fast, that's just part of the value proposition.
Uber just keeps driving nails in their own coffin!
That being said, if tipping is going to be part of the new model going forward I would at least want it to be anonymous. That is have the driver receive all of his/her tips in aggregate at the end of the pay cycle without knowing which passengers it came from. The driver can still determine if his overall service was, on average, financially valued by the drivers above the fare price but passengers don't have the same pressure to tip (blacklisted by drivers, bad reviews, etc) if they don't want to.
I agree completely. Not only woulld this all go away if they are paid better, but they would likely be more motivated and friendly.
When I used to use Uber, my policy was that if a driver asked for a tip, I would drop their rating by 1 or 2 stars, depending on how aggressive they were. This has only happened once. (A handful of other drivers had a tasteful tip jar; I found it annoying but chose not to penalize.)
If you are especially pleased with a service on a particular occasion, then you should tip. If you are the type of person who is never pleased with anything, then you should certainly feel no obligation to tip, ever.
This whole exchange reminds me of an episode of Black Mirror.
* (edit: Then again, after reading some more of the impressions on this page, I think I may be privileged that I am in a relatively small midwestern city where Uber and Lyft both offer service. I have never been asked to tip, by any of the drivers I've used on either service. It sounds like that is far from the norm, at least in areas where HN users are.)
Drivers would still yearn and push for tips.
It's an established industry practice and drivers assume that most people will tip if asked, so by not asking they are leaving money on the table.
Since Uber lost a recent lawsuit wrt tipping, I've been on multiple rides where the driver has a tip jar. So I much prefer the in-app tipping compared to having a physical tip jar in the car.
Tips are not "free money," they drive down salary thus they move compensation from the employer's responsibility to the responsibility of the customer. The more tips you get the less you get paid.
Pay the drivers what they are worth. How hard is that? Seriously. How hard is it to just give an honest wage for honest work?
WashPo: "[Uber] recast itself as a company with a conscience and a heart."
Correction: Uber is passing the conscience and heart part onto its users so that it doesn't have to. Now I am going to feeling like jerk when I don't give someone a tip. That was my favorite part about uber. Don't make think about taxes and tip. How silly would it be if Uber was a restaurant? WashPo: "Restaurant shows magninimity by allowing patrons to supplement the low wages of the restaurant with a tip of their own!" Progress.
That way, if you leave no tip, it can't come back and bite you.
Edit: To be clear, I am speaking from Uber's perspective.
If drivers get 80% of the fare now, they'll get 70% of the fare in a couple months because Uber will argue that drivers get tips now, which more than compensate for that loss.
I was a Lyft driver for one summer. Also Lyft supposely paid more.
Uber never encourage tipping and they didn't care about their driver at all. Their CEO was on the record for this.
I chose Lyft because they were more friendly and they didn't treat their worker like dirt.
I wouldn't ride an Uber or work for uber unless I really really have to. Most of the time I use Lyft for rides.
It's a crap managed company, threat their female co worker like Donald's locker room talk.
They threat their worker like crap. They did some really unfair things against Lyft. Including massive call on Lyft rides and then canceling it. They spy on their rival Lyft drivers. And they tried to steal Google's autonomous car tech.
They got greedy with their expansion too.
I don't like tipping either but Uber had to do this and I'm confident the data showed it.
Perhaps you live in a market where Uber drivers are aggressive about asking for tips, though, which is not the case in SF.
It'll form an income stream.
>Uber won’t take any part of the tips given drivers.[1]
IIRC, it would also be legally dubious to do so.
[1] And for the record, I prefer this phrasing to the more common "Drivers keep 100% of tips", which is not true unless they're evading taxes.
I think this varies a lot by city. I don't know if you're in San Francisco, but it's never been my experience here that drivers expect a tip. But when I fly down to Las Vegas nearly all the Ubers I've taken have notes taped up in the back stating the driver expects to be tipped (in cash).
It would annoy me to no end, and I would be surprised if Uber would have been cool with that before now.
If you're a frequent customer of a certain driver and consistently don't tip then I can see some problems there.
Particularly troubling is the framing:
>Uber is enabling passengers to tip its U.S. drivers with a tap on its ride-hailing app for the first time, part of a push to recast itself as a company with a conscience and a heart.
What? As if anyone preferring that a service be upfront about prices is "heartless"? Anyone who doesn't want tip jars at the grocery store checkstand or bus farebox is heartless? All of Europe and Asia are heartless?
As if all of the alternatives for increasing driver compensation are heartless? (Higher payouts or the Sidecar drivers-set-prices model.)
[1] Before anyone says it, yes I know you have to pay more for a tip-free service; I'm not an idiot. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with the lack of consistent, clear, compatible expectations it involves, and being stuck in the position of either a) overpaying, b) making a silent faux pas, or c) having negative feedback misinterpreted as stinginess.
It's probably not a bad idea to just select the $0 option when the tip screen shows up... until drivers start insisting on seeing you enter your tip before awarding your 5-star rating.
If any driver did that to me, I would give them a 1-star rating, no tip, and immediately report them to Uber's customer support.
And pretty much every bar/restaurant I know of pools tips, not the opposite as you suggest.
For me the main benefit of using Uber (as well as all other on-demand services like Doordash, Caviar, etc.) was that everything is included and I don't have to think.
Companies like Uber should be focused on building a product that consumers want and nothing else. These decisions are nothing more than the company being bullied (by the media and activists) into making politically correct decisions that brings NO benefit to any parties involved, including the drivers.
If anyone thinks this will eventually be beneficial for the drivers they're short-sighted. It's just turning Uber into a Taxi experience.
Their question was "What can we do about this without losing more money?"
You seem to want a free market, but not a market that prioritizes things (e.g. tipping) that you don't care about.
You can't have it both ways. The market has spoken and Uber has responded.
Also I don't know where your assumption "The market has spoken" comes from.
Oh, that's me! Here's a few reasons I'd want to have the option to pay a driver a bit more:
- I forced them to drive a stressful route
- I forced them to drive waaay off the beaten path
- They helped me schlep large items in/out of their vehicle
- I inconvenienced them somehow to where it makes their next ride a bit less likely to tip / star (like making a mess in the car)
> The market has spoken
A driver and I recently discussed this change, and our conclusion was: "finally!". Tipping is the custom in the USA for exactly this kind of job. Making it inconvenient or impossible to tip inside the app is like garnishing drivers' wages. Some drivers really really do deserve to benefit more from their labor, and some riders really do owe their drivers a bit more.
I'd much rather know my driver is paid a fair wage (and pay more upfront) by their fucking employer rather than have to be responsible of making up the difference.
You're arguing that a company should act only in its own rational self-interest. That's a reasonable point of view. But there's zero evidence that this is not in Uber's self-interest.
EDIT: I saw your comment in response to smt88. I do want to pay more for a taxi. I want to be able to control how much I pay according to how good of a service was provided, and I want to feel like the taxi driver is getting a decent pay rate. That's one of the reasons I typically use Lyft, and if it weren't for a terrible experience with Uber customer service, this decision would make me more likely to use Uber again.
Also tipping is an American (and some other countries) thing. Many countries around the world don't have the tipping culture and these people feel very uncomfortable when they are expected to tip because they don't know what's the right amount.
I have lived in those countries and trust me living in a culture where tipping is expected is much more stressful.
Somebody else said than an early version of the Uber app let customers define their tip in the app and it was automatically applied. Maybe they should bring that back and also give drivers the ability to filter on that value.
No tips. The price is the price and being begged by some asshole won't make the experience better.
I take close to 1,000 Uber trips per year.
The biggest disappointment about this change to me is that I won't be having conversations with Uber drivers anymore.
Uber drivers will now be obligated to make pleasant conversation with me. I have no interest in speaking to somebody who's obligated to make pleasant conversation with me.
When you add tipping, you're essentially attaching a financial penalty to sincerity.
All economic arguments aside, it's just not right to penalize someone for being in a bad mood that day or not wanting to talk to you. We force these workers to maintain these totally fabricated upbeat emotional states and we act like it's normal. It's not normal anywhere else in the world, and I can't stand it.
Every time I see someone making conversation with a waiter or waitress, it honestly seems rude to me. They have to talk to you, they have to agree with you, they have to smile and laugh at your joke. By having a conversation with them you're forcing them to do all of these things, and if they don't, you're going to take money off their tab. That is just rude.
Uber will have access to all the data related to tipping, the fare splits will be adjusted accordingly, and Uber drivers' pay will normalize to exactly what it already would have been without tipping.
I'm curious, though: if you have nothing to say to a person, and don't say anything, do you get more or less of a tip than if you were to (insincerely) attempt to make polite conversation?
As for the bit on sincerity, can't say much as nowadays I just find it totally alien. People gotta live somehow, be it with others or just with ourselves. So getting hung up on the porcupine's dilemma and whether every interaction we make with another person is like a hundred tiny knifes running across their face is a great way to miss the point: sometimes their words hurt me too. But I don't show it, because I want to drop it and go back to the point.
Although I reckon this is more of a "honest" fakeness rather than the giddy fakeness which is sometimes found in customer service.
Doesn't the rating system approximate this outcome well enough, though? Being able to rate a driver, and see the overall rating before I get in the car is of huge value to me as a customer. Feeling obligated to tip is a net negative for me.
In a restaurant (in the US at least) it's so expected to tip that if you tip lower than 15% for terrible service you're considered cheapskate. Even though Uber's tipping will presumably be anonymous-ish (assuming they implement it like Lyft has), I would still feel that social pressure.
It just happens to be that Lyft's tipping annoys me less than Uber's shitty corporate culture these days.
This is just silly. You could just as easily (and just as incorrectly) say that someone not conversing with their server is consigning them to the indignity of being invisible and ignored all day, like an appliance instead of a person. Hell, I've had plenty of waiters that talked _my_ ear off more than I would've optimally preferred. The fact that social cues are attenuated in the conversation doesn't mean they don't exist; blanket statements like "every time someone makes conversation with the waiter they're forcing them to talk" are just dumb.
As for whether they should tip in the first place, this wouldn't be a problem if Uber charged enough to begin with. But they got into a price war, with a company that does do tipping already, and they simply don't charge enough now to pay the drivers enough.
When they have started, the motto was, "Uber - Your private driver" and it was truly like that until today I tip the driver like every other service you get.
Are cash tips expected on Uber Black? My understanding is that segment operates on much more generous rates than cut-throat UberX.
Because in the US tipping isn't for good service. You tip 15% for regular, average service. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to pay a flat, quoted rate for getting from A to B.
Feeling obligated to tip on Lyft is one of my least favorite parts, and in fact I refused to switch from Uber to Lyft much longer than I would have preferred to because of Lyft's tipping culture.
> it generally favors the drivers
You know what favors the drivers better? Paying them more. Not only does this put more cash in their pockets, but it also provides more predictable income for them.
Cabs
1. Find a cab
2. Hail the cab
3. Get in cab
4. Decide what to tip the cab
5. Pay the cab driver
6. Get out of cab
vs
Uber (without tipping)
1. Hail the uber from phone
2. Get in uber
3. Get out of uber
You could make the argument that tipping is optional, but deciding not to tip is still a decision making step.
From what I hear from my friends who use Uber, 1 reason they love it is because all the charges are through the app and there is no "obligation" to tip, so it's 1 less decision them have to make, i.e. calculate how much to tip, keep wondering if you tipped the driver too much, or too little, what's a "fair" tip for the ride etc etc.
I will never tip with zero guilt.
I suspect you're in the minority. Most people (in the US, anyway), when presented with an explicit option to tip, will do so out of a sense of obligation, or out of a desire not to be seen as a cheapskate -- even if the decision whether or not to tip is anonymous! Unfortunately that's how ingrained tipping culture is here.
If you think this is not a real obligation or doesn't have real consequences, then you have no experience with tipping.
Also having to deal with some of the shadier/creepier drivers expecting tips sounds like something I'd rather not deal with.
Except, my Lyft ratings kept on tanking, and I didn't even know. At one time I tipped a guy nearly 60% of the tab. Despite of this, my Uber rating were 4.8 and Lyft ratings were 4.0.
Eventually I figured out, it is the way Lyft implemented their tipping mechanism. All tips are combined and given to the driver at the end of the week. I mean what is the point of tipping then?
Since then I only give cash tips.
We all know that next there are going to be the subtle and not-so subtle encouragements from drivers to tip. Then the expectation to tip.
This move seems to only confuse me as a consumer, create something else for drivers to be annoyed about (the tips they receive vs what uber claimed they'll see), and adding an additional cognitive layer in payments.
I don't see the lasting benefit here. Just increase prices or increase driver share of payout.
That already happened, with passive-aggressive comments about how you can tip in cash.
> I don't see the lasting benefit here. Just increase prices or increase driver share of payout.
There's a clear perceived benefit to Uber: PR with drivers, perceived improvement as a company (as opposed to having to fix hard corporate-culture issues), and the ability to keep the "advertised" price lower. (Of course, they're missing that they've now abandoned one of their major differentiators from their lead competitor.)
But there's certainly no lasting benefit to customers. Tips should be for extraordinary, stand-out service, not a customary hassle in every transaction.
It turns out the Lyft model, where the driver doesn't know whether or not the rider tipped, is better for the rider. The rider doesn't have to carry cash in order to avoid getting extorted for a 5-star rating.
Tipping culture in restaurants is subsidizing substandard wages for servers. Tipping culture for taxis and the gypsy cab apps (Uber, Didi, Lyft, etc) doesn't have to take hold. Maybe now that the option is in-app, riders will eventually stop using it.
I hope, at least, that the tipping option is confined to U.S. rides. The rest of the world doesn't need to get infected with it.
This may be because of the markets that HN readers are skewed towards and the fact that they may not have this culture at all. I live in San Francisco, have used Uber for about 5-6 years (since well before UberX), and have probably taken hundreds of rides: I've literally not once ever had a driver ask me for a cash tip, let alone the ridiculous experiences others on this thread are describing of drivers holding your rating hostage until you tip.
Aside from that, this is terrible news to me. The tip system is so flawed. 99% of people in America do not consider tips optional, but service here is no better for it. I want to pay a fair wage. I don't want to tip. Is there simply no market for this?
If you think of interacting with another human as a chore, then it will be a chore. But if you think of it an an opportunity to learn, then it can be very rewarding I think.
Honestly though, I don't see the need for tipping to make people interact with each other. I've been taking uber for years (both in southern California and Singapore) and I don't see the need for this.
"Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends."
I use Lyft, which has had in-app tipping for a while now. In DC, most of the Lyft drivers are chatty. Last time I visited SF, none of the drivers were chatty.
I think this will have a negative effect on the experience of both driver & rider in countries where tipping is unusual, due to the increasing ambiguity of the fee. Especially if ratings become contingent upon tip.
It also seems to not fit the model. In a dining establishment there is a three party arrangement (restaurateur, customer, and server) and the assumption that the best way to motivate servers is to create a separate financial relationship between them and the customer. Uber already has well defined payments for all three parties, and channels for rating drivers and riders.
In California workers are at least paid minimum wage, ignoring tips, but in most states, restaurant workers are almost entirely dependent on tips to earn a living wage.
It’s a terrible system for a variety of reasons.
Now you get rated (for sitting?) and must compete with other passengers on tipping, whilst service quality continues to drop. Not tipping for bad service lowers your rating dramatically, so you have to tip for mediocre/bad service and sneak in a bad rating, which increasingly has little effect. It used to be that I could not find an Uber with less than 4.8, because you couldn't last like that as a driver. I now regularly getting mediocre service from ~4.5.
My immediate feeling is that I should stop using Uber almost completely, risk normal taxis ripping me off occasionally (knowing your city helps) and only use Uber when really needed (no taxis around, urgent etc), tipping then.
In Los Angeles I booked a ride and the driver never showed up. After cancelling the ride I got the $5 charge and luckily their support took care of it.
But tipping is something that needs to go away. I liked Uber despite their troubles because I was paying for a service and the minimum viable product is that the driver gets me from point A to point B safely.
Now what's in a fare? An opportunity to get in a car to pay more money for them to do their job.
This is Uber's attempt pass on the burden of compensation to their passengers. Uber rides just got a little more awkward.
Just charge me what it costs to give them a living wage and I'm happy!
Restaurant workers, drivers, doormen, valets, whatever - they are doing real work and should paid as such. If they have a bad attitude then they should be fired. It should be not up to the customer to 'reward' good behavior.
Uber was already dead in my eyes. I don't love that Lyft even has a tipping option, but at least it's optional. Why not cut the salaries of the execs (who, as it's been proven, are worse than useless) and compensate the workers better?
I'm afraid that's an executive decision.
It is going to be exactly the same with Uber's tipping.
> Riders will be charged by the minute if they keep an Uber car waiting for more than two minutes.
And will riders also be reimbursed for waiting for drivers? it seems all to frequent now that Ubers arrive significantly after their estimated time. Other times I get drivers that somehow don't move for 5 mins after reserving and yet accepted a ride.
And there is now no way to cancel out of this within 5 mins. Now you need to do so within two mins.
They are destroying their unique selling proposition. I can already push buttons and screw around with cab companies and drivers. I was looking for better than that. Uber's supposed to be no hassle. What the fuck, guys?
Is it possible that someone who doesn't tip what the driver believe is enough or if they don't tip at all they will receive a bad passenger rating now, even if they are courteous and respectful?
I had some hope that the tipping parts of the world would maybe move away from the practice and just pay people what they are worth:
https://www.eater.com/2017/1/12/14250128/danny-meyer-tipping...
They can rate passengers.
And who asked for tipping besides drivers? Hate the concept. Charge us more or split the fare with them better.
Each time the Uber driver got out and helped me load up his car, and then he helped me unload. I tipped them with cash except in one case where I just didn't have bills small enough (wasn't thinking).
This is nice.
Just a lose-lose situation.
Tipping is just something abused to keep base prices low. It makes no sense outside of dishonest pricing schemes.
Also do these drivers really want me to base my tip on the quality of their driving? I find most uber and cab drivers are unsafe and frankly, shitty drivers.
This is one of the orginal features that helped drive customers away from cabs.
It's not that the drivers don't deserve money- far from it. It's that you now have a company that is desperate for cash, and it is the one who tells the drivers how much they made in tips. What's to stop them from skimming the tips? Oh, not too much, not enough that anyone can really point it out, but just a little bit, right?
And let's not all pretend that a company as morally grey as Uber isn't willing to do it either. They'll write some legal bullshit into the contract, force all drivers to either agree to it, or stop driving, and then claim that everything they did was legal and therefore ethical.
I understand the marketing costs of getting drivers and riders on the platform but end of the day, if the drivers are going to make more and riders get a similar experience, it would be an obvious choice to switch, wouldn't it?
Put another way, why isn't anyone doing it? I hardly believe that Uber/Lyft's model has a wide defensible moat.
That being said, I believe Lyft pools tips from riders to avoid a tit-for-tat ratings, and drivers to not know if a rider tipped for a particular trip. If Uber follows that model, then perhaps this is a reasonable middle ground.
This gives riders that option without hurting Uber's bottom line. Paying drivers more is all well and good, but an increase in fares on the rider side would reduce marketplace demand and might actually hurt drivers more than it would help. The alternative is for Uber to eat the cost of paying drivers more, but that simply isn't viable for a company that's already losing as much money Uber does. Put simply, Uber is a business that can't really afford to pay drivers more.
There's a lot that could go wrong with tipping and it remains to be seen whether Uber rolls this out everywhere, but it's possible that this could end up being a feature where everyone wins.
For example, Uber is 90 cents per mile in Chicago, but twice that at $1.75 mile in New York.
When Uber/Lyft came along to relieve the politically induced shortage while easily able to improve customer value by offering more vehicles and at lower prices, the value of medallions went to $700,000 or less and drivers stopped driving Yellow Cabs choosing Uber/Lyft instead.
Apparently, people are not required to tip, nor can they receive a bad score if they don't.
But Uber sold customers a bill of goods which said that tips were automatically included in the fare, not that there are no tips.
The pricing is dynamic based on supply and demand. If the fares are too low, that means there's too many drivers and not enough riders. So, if it's not worth it at that time...don't drive. Prices will go up until drivers decide it's worthwhile to drive. If they're out they're driving, that means they've decided the price available at the time is worth it to them.
But tipping is a deal breaker.
The gist of the video is that if you're tipping, then a waiter/waitress for example is not being paid enough, and tips are deliberately designed to bolster their unfair income.
Getting a ride is way too streamlined - every single time I have used the Uber app (infrequently), I was not sure if I had committed to requesting a ride yet. This is the most annoying thing. Also there is no obvious means of scheduling a pickup time.
Lyft UX is a lot better and the company seems to not be run by assholes, so I like to support that whenever I can.
The fact they block their entire site if you use an ad-blocker is ridiculous and makes me want to have an alternate source every time.
That practice is highly dependent on the restaurant and locale. In many places, it's illegal to require the waitstaff to pool tips with the kitchen.
https://www.eater.com/2016/2/26/11119264/restaurants-tip-poo...
http://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/operations/advice-gu...
Translation:
"We will no longer pay our drivers, we will guilt you into doing it."
It's ironic how the same people who say they don't mind paying a higher price vs tips, are choosing Uber because they are cheaper than a Lyft/Taxi.
If people do want to drive full-time, that job already exists. There are numerous places to work as a commercial driver. In fact, Uber Black leverages exactly this and is routinely serviced by companies that employee full-time drivers.
The fact that many drivers don't choose to be full-time professional drivers is far more telling than the tiny but whiny minority that seem to not realize what rideshare driving is.
Since tipping is not actually "politically correct," it's racist, sexist, and classist (1), it's a big lose for the advocates you blame.
It seemed they were under pressure from regulators, not social justice activates. I think this is the money quote
>Conigliaro said the guild forced the introduction of tipping by putting pressure on regulators. New York’s Taxi and Limousine Commission is weighing a proposal that would require in-app tipping, and is expected to hear reaction from riders and drivers at a public hearing on July 13.
They also introduced some sort of surcharge for teens as part of this change, so you believe thats also the fault of "social justice" too?
(1) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dar...
http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/minimum-wage-activists-cal...
Your comments have been crossed into incivility frequently in a way that violates the site rules. We ban accounts that do this repeatedly. Please edit such bits out of your posts to HN.
Instead, please be respectful and assume good faith when disagreeing, regardless of how wrong someone else may be. Even if you don't feel you owe better to them, you owe it to the community not to damage the commons.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14600765 and marked it off-topic.
Only regrettable thing is the phrase "cute little narrative" you used. The comment would have been excellent even without pulling me down.
I think the point i was trying to make was that it's sad that Uber is making decisions that are against user experience. They used to be able to push through all this because users loved the product. But nowadays they've lost a lot of power because of all the controversies. The reason Uber became popular in the first place was because they built something that was great for the users. If they cared about these little regulations back then, they wouldn't be here and we would still be stuck with the shitty taxi system.
I remember when startup people used to look up to Uber as the poster child for being ruthless just to provide great user experience. Now the narrative has changed even though they are not doing anything different. The new narrative is that Uber is a law breaking sexist organization, and everybody likes to hate Uber.
If Uber still had the same reputation as back then, I don't think they would be introducing features like this, which a lot of people will hate.
I'm not sure how I feel about Uber being able to collect data on tip collection.
Yes, by George Orwell's account, tipping was considered repugnant by no less than the anarchist defenders of Catalonia in the Spanish Civil War. But you feel bad not tipping when expected and you want to know what to do.
1. Tip your bartender at least $1/drink. Maybe tip $3 if you got two drinks. Maybe $2 for one of it's something fancy. 2. In SF, tip your waiter 20% for good service, 15% for adequate service. 3. Tip at least $5 for delivery. If a bartender gets $1 for handing you a beer, the delivery person deserves $5 for driving to your home and bailing you out of cooking. 4. Tip $2 for an adequate Lyft/Uber. $1 if you feel pinched.
When to tip more? Like being in love, you'll just know.
It is simple. Voluntary. Binary.
A $1 or $2 tip may not seem like much, but if it gets saved (which often tip receivers do) it adds up. Like found money.
Do uber drivers make a lot? Could $1 $2 $3 help them?
It is not about guilt. It's not about service quality. It is not about greater things. It is about helping someone who most likely needs it.
You could get on a high horse and make grandiose statements - all for a few dollars!!
Tip receivers know the types that never tip. And types that tip big. And types that cant afford to tip.
Dont over think Tipping.
I never wish anyone financial hardship but if you ever experience it you will know how greatful a small or large tip helps.
According to Uber, when you get in a car, that driver is actually working for you.
You do noy have to pay extra. You bring your lifes experiences on your drive.
You intersect with a person who may need a few extra bucks. A second job. A displaced older man. A parent trying to manage caring for pre-school aged kids. An immigrant making extra to help his family.
Now. You have a chance to help this person. That is ALL a tip is.
People from the school of hard knocks tip more and "get it"
But you never HAVE to tip
I think it's a bummer to see developers who make way over the national median income complain they "don't want to think" about maybe giving a couple extra bucks to people who could use it.
The onus should be on the employers -- not on the employees and the customer to figure it out.
I hate tipping. The whole experience of it just sucks in every way. It doesn't bring joy to anyone. Both parties lose. The service provider constantly has to worry about tips and have no consistency in income. If they were paid a normal livable wage, then they wouldn't have to worry about this. For the customer, the whole process of purchasing a product is made more painful and more complicated - unnecessarily.
Increase the prices, and pay people decently, but don't tip.
Numerous comments here are indeed suggesting "don't make me think" but to be fair they are also suggesting higher prices and wages for drivers. They are not saying "don't want to pay", they just want to not think about it and rather let it be part of the payment formula in the first place.
Then i got displaced. Bartending introduced me to the tipping "infrastructure" and lifestyle.
Then making deliveries.
I think developers just can't feel until my way about tipping until they lose their jobs.
It is not they are assholes - just not worldly.
All of these anti-tipping comments clearly have not used Lyft. The Lyft culture versus Uber's from a passenger perspective is so much better. No, you don't have forced conversations like people here think will happen. People forget that Lyft was originally pushing being the more authentic company from the start. In my experience, the drivers respect this too, and almost every driver I've talked to prefers Lyft riders (even when I'm taking an Uber due to Lyft unavailability).
The tipping option means I can pay my driver more if he helps me unload a bunch of luggage/boxes (I've had to take an Uber to a storage facility years ago and had to use a 3rd party credit swipe app to tip my driver for all the extra work) or some other scenario. There's no tipping mention in Lyft rides, while I've seen it often in Uber rides. It's there for when you need it, and isn't something I really consider much. Is 1 second of thinking really too much? Efficiency isn't that important people.
I agree that tipping ambiguity is a pain sometimes. The remedy is taking the 3-5 min to learn the culture for common tipping scenarios. If you spend that time, the answer is pretty clear here. The feature comes in handy far more than it causes pain, speaking from the epxerience of myself and others.
If you actually read the complaints here, the vast majority are against the manner of the pay increase, not the increase itself. If you're going to pretend that complaints against this are complaints against drivers' benefit, you need a reason that an across-the-board, no-Uber-commission pay rise wouldn't have done the same thing without making the product shittier.
A better tipping system is better than nothing at all. A drop in the bucket far too late, but as a Lyft user, I find the tipping system to be better on both sides.
Furthermore, a lot of comments are just against tipping in general, and a worse experience on both sides with tipping in this case. My post is arguing against that notion from experience.
2. You cite zero evidence. Your speculation isn't very convincing from what I have seen anecdotally, which it seems like is all you're going off of. To me, Lyft is surging in popularity in the US and is on the upward trend as everyone jumps ship from Uber, drivers and riders alike.