Comment by adventured | Hacker News Reader

Comment by adventured | Hacker News Reader

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> the private sector has amassed quite a lot of power that could overstep / bypass the government entirely

I understand and that's a fantasy at best, which was my point. The US Government is radically more powerful than any corporation inside of its domain. It's not even remotely close. They're more powerful than every corporation in the US combined.

The moment they send federal agents to shut down Google HQ (even if it's just for a day) and begin arresting people on terrorism charges (doesn't matter if any of it sticks, they never have to stop coming), specifically targeting management, and then walking them through & out of the buildings in handcuffs - Google instantly capitulates as their stock collapses by 20% in one day. And that's the easiest of moves the Feds can make, that's a trivial demonstration of their power to intimidate.

Then the IRS begins pursuing any exec they want to. They can do horrific things to anyone at any time, even if it doesn't stick long-term it still makes your life hell - and they never have to stop coming.

Then x y z, forever, paying their bills with your tax dollars and the infinite fiat machine.

Their initial efforts don't work? They change the laws tomorrow to give themselves a new sharp stick. They only really need one really nasty stick, and they have dozens already.

But that's exactly my point - the US government has the kinds of enforcement power that deals with sending in troops to kick down doors and lock people in steel cages.

Google has the kind of power that staves off that from even happening in the first place. The US government isn't a singular entity, it is comprised of several hundred individually powerful people. Three branches, plus several military branches, each with their own branches of authority and people of power. Then you have states with their own 3 branches and national guards, police. You have a national police equivalent (NSA, CIA, FBI, ATF, Border Control).

That's a lot of people google can go to and say "Interesting that you are into midget porn, I wonder what would happen if the whole world knew that?"

That's a lot of people google can go to and say "Did you know that your neighboring state's governor is having an affair with a man? Give us this land grant for server space and we'll give you the proof."

"Give us guaranteed protection from the Fed and we'll give you the entire query history from all whitehouse IP addresses."

"Do not fuck with us or we will DDOS every single DNS server in the world with our absurdly massive server infrastructure."

"Do not fuck with us or we will turn the public against you by messaging the 63,000 people using our site per second"

"Do not fuck with us or we will make your very existence invisible to 80% of the people on the internet."

After issuing their threat, and getting "no" back, they would say -- "We do not negotiate with terrorists" and go in with the guns. Collateral damage be damned.

That's how wars happen, and why it's a bad idea to make ultimatums to the US government.

Again, I'm not suggesting Google issues a public statement before a congressional panel - "do the thing we want, US government, or we'll get ya!" I'm saying they could be much more insidious with the kind of power they have.

Like the King's head Surgeon - he could never take on the King in hand to hand combat, but he can certainly poison him slowly, over time and invisibly, in return for more consolidated power or money or some other such thing from the King's son.

I don't think anyone would bother with guns. Order ISPs switch off access to Google's servers and CDNs, order power regulators cut off their power, freeze their bank accounts (as well as those of the executive, employees and vendors) and declare them insurrectionists. If Google truly tried to act with insurrectionist intent, I'd expect (and want) our government to react forcefully.

I'm just playing along with the fiction at this point, so here's my response:

1. Order ISPS to switch off access to Google's servers and CDNs. Most internet traffic stops working as any website using a google CDN breaks, all analytics stops working, internet advertising breaks almost entirely, the internet is suddenly a less profitable and very scary, mostly unusable place. Google releases as its death-throes the fact that the ISPs are entirely to blame for this, gives coordinates of ISP offices and pitchfork emporiums. Customers revolt, UN issues a missive reminding the world that access to the internet is a human right.

2. Order power regulators to cut off their power - Pretty similar to above. Internet stops working very well, except Google continues to work in other countries, and suddenly it doesn't really make sense to do business in the USA. Google employees flee abroad where they can. Opportunistic countries take advantage of this and grant asylum.

3. Freeze their bank accounts - best idea yet, I think, except for I'm not sure how it would be implemented. Government order comes through declaring "Alphabet, Inc" to be entirely comprised of terrorists? Not sure. Either way, Google goes the way of Pablo Escobar and talks directly to bank VPs - "give us some of the money / give us a warning you get a freeze order / whatever, or we tell the world about your midget porn / location of all your private estates / your tax fraud." Alternatively, google uses its near total access to civilian populations to cast the US government as a totalitarian dictatorship issuing a coup against the American people's access to free information and fosters a revolution.

> Order ISPS to switch off access to Google's servers and CDNs. Most internet traffic stops working as any website using a google CDN breaks, all analytics stops working, internet advertising breaks almost entirely, the internet is suddenly a less profitable and very scary, mostly unusable place

The scenario is insurrection. Communications going down while people are arrested is perfectly acceptable.

> Google goes the way of Pablo Escobar and talks directly to bank VPs

Bank VPs have no control over dollar clearing and settlement. In any case, violating an OFAC freeze is automatic jail time for lots of people. Nobody messes around with this.

> The US Government is radically more powerful than any corporation inside of its domain. It's not even remotely close.

For sure, that was never in dispute. No one pretended there wouldn't be consequences, either. That was never the point of my post or parent's. Take a look at the examples for what was being referred to.

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