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Comment by csours | Hacker News Reader

So many reasons, but the two big ones are:

1. Cost vs Reward.

2. Regulations.

1) Many concept cars are non-functional or only partially functional. Making them fully functional and production ready, even at prototype levels would be extremely costly.

2) Many features in concept cars are not evaluated against FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) and other standards, they are not crash tested, they may not meet EPA regulations.

There are a lot of other reasons, but they all basically boil down to cost vs reward.

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There is also the backwards case, where many modern "concept cars" are actually just pre-production teasers with fancy cosmetics.

Disclaimer: I work for GM, but not on concept cars, sadly =(

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Are Ferrari models crash tested?

Yes. Even super rare koenigseggs, and paganis are crash tested. If I recall right, koenigsegg uses one or two monocoque carbon frames to pass the tests.

http://blog.dupontregistry.com/news/crash-test-2-million-hyp...

https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/do-you-have-to-crash-test-sup...

Yes, usually at least once. Part of the reason supercars are so expensive is that the engineering costs are only amortized over a small number of vehicles. The crash test can be considered part of that cost.

The actual incremental cost to produce a supercar is a fraction of the price tag.

In addition to official government crash tests, non-governmental groups such as IIHS also crash test mass market vehicles, but they actually have to purchase the vehicles they test - hoping to make money by selling back the information they collect. It's pretty much never cost effective for IIHS to buy supercars for crash testing.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings

Interesting. The other thing I was curious about: aren't there regulations in term of maximum noise emitted by new cars? If that's the case I wonder how these supercars are roadworthy.

Yes there are and that's why e.g. Ferrari have been going towards turbo charged cars with conservative exhaust pipes recently.

At least where I'm from, most regulations don't apply retroactively. You can still drive around in an old V12 with short tailpipes but a new one wouldn't be allowed.

I love the sound of a Ferrari. I wish in France there were more Ferraris and less of those obnoxiously loud motor scooters. Scooters are louder than most cars.

Amen. Where I live, the biggest traffic noise is mopeds with tuned exhausts driven by obnoxious 15-year olds late at night. They're louder than most racing cars I've heard. Certainly much much louder than the V8 cars at the muscle car garage not far from where I live.

You can drive a moped at 15 yo, limited to 50cc engine and 45 km/h. The latter is often circumvented by boring the exhaust and it makes them super loud (and illegal). Lots of parents in rural areas and faraway suburbs buy their kids mopeds at 15 so they don't have to be driven around.

A bit off topic, but I've especially wondered this about large motorcycles (both superbikes and choppers). Many of those models are so incredibly loud in everyday traffic, I can't believe they passed those tests.

I mean, supercars are rare enough and usually not that loud unless you push them (I guess this could be a way to stay within regulations), but some of those bikes can drown out other noise even when accelerating normally from a stop.

They may be rare but I live close to a place with many owners of these supercars, and it's a big nuisance. My flat has a very good sound insulation and I can't hear a large truck going through the street, but I hear these supercars (and large bikes) very well.

To be honest, that sounds awesome! I'd love to be able to see and hear supercars without even having to leave my house...

New motorcycles are subject to noise regulations, but there's very little to stop the owner from fitting a noisier aftermarket exhaust system. Many dealers will happily fit a non-road-legal exhaust system, under the pretence that it's for track use only. Changing a motorcycle exhaust or muffler is quick and simple, so it's easy to switch back to the factory exhaust for a mandatory annual inspection.

We need some kind of camera technology with acoustic localisation/triangulation that can be installed on main roads to detect vehicles that are operating at excessive/illegal noise levels.

I guess it would be difficult, legally speaking, to issue fines directly from such cameras. But the registration plates could be flagged for inspection, and fines issued if they are found to have a non-road-legal exhaust fitted.

The big reason to have a loud exhaust is to keep people in cars from changing lanes into the space you're occupying.

Loud exhausts on bikes basically a natural reaction to the improved sound deadening and deeper seating position over time. Vehicle changes have caused a reduction in situational awareness for what's going on beside you and bikers toss on loud exhausts because they notice a correlation between a window thumping exhaust not and not getting merged on top of. While I prefer a quiet exhaust (because stupid people think loud = driving too fast) I wholly understand why motorcyclists want people to know if they are in their blind spots.

Your big brother camera idea sounds like a great way to screw over everyone who's muffler rusts off and has to drive it like that for a week (who vastly outnumber people with loud exhausts in terms of vehicle miles). They like the noise even less than you do (they have to spend more time with it) and piling on doesn't help that. Vehicle noise isn't really a big enough problem to warrant more government involvement than already exists.

The best way to avoid listening to loud exhausts in residential neighborhoods is to not have unnecessary stops/speed bumps to "control traffic speed" (or whatever other justification the HOA cooks up). They just make people accelerate between them.

>The big reason to have a loud exhaust is to keep people in cars from changing lanes into the space you're occupying.

That's what bikers tell people so that those people stop calling them names. Doesn't mean it's true. The real reason bikes or cars or trucks are modified to have loud exhausts is because the driver wants to draw more attention to themselves for purely cosmetic reasons. If safety was a priority, they would leave the exhaust stock and just not ride in blind spots, not weave in and out of traffic, keep to the speed limit, and generally drive in a predictable fashion.

>has to drive it like that for a week (who vastly outnumber people with loud exhausts)

This is also not true. How would the amount of rusted cars without a muffler for one week outnumber the people who drive like that permanently? The people who either drive without a muffler or who have a modified muffler? For the entire life of the car?

The best way to avoid listening to loud exhausts is for insecure assholes to stop modifying their muffler.

Excessive vehicle noise may not be a big problem everywhere, but it's huge issue in a densely populated city like London. Constant exposure to such noise prevents restful sleep, affects people's health and well-being, and harms property values.

Don't get me wrong: the majority of motorcycle riders are responsible, respectful road users who ride quiet machines.

But a small minority seem to want to create as much noise and distress to others as possible. It's not about safety ("loud pipes save lives" has been thoroughly dis-proven by statistics), it's about appearing aggressive and macho, and perhaps compensating for the rider's own personal problems.

As for a car who's "muffler rusted off"? Should not be driven until it's fixed, period.

Tests apply in "default" configuration. So I drive a Mercedes AMG which has a button to open the exhaust which makes it way louder. But the test is conducted in the state in which the car starts in by default - so with the exhaust closed and quiet. Same with emissions - if the car starts by default with Start/Stop system on, it's tested with it on. But obviously you can switch the system off which increases the emissions.

I really wish that governments and authorities (UK/EU) would do more to tackle excessively noisy vehicles.

It's a significant problem here in London: Supercars (and regular cars and motorbikes that have been modified to have noisy exhausts) make up a tiny minority of vehicles on the road, but it only takes one to produce incredible noise levels that carry for many blocks and penetrate almost any soundproofing/double glazing.

It's completely unfair to subject so many people in such a dense city to these noises just for the thrills of one driver/rider. Stick to the track if you must drive such a noisy vehicle!

Politicians probably think of it as an annoyance to be shrugged off, but it does genuine economic harm. It damages property values near busy roads, and it makes our public spaces and parks unpleasant. Even in the middle of huge green areas like Hyde Park, you can still hear them roaring down park lane etc.

Agreed, and it's become common on many more cars than supercars to add valves to make exhausts noisier. I suspect these valves are not triggered in regulatory exhaust noise tests.

From Jaguar's website:

  Every F‑TYPE is fitted with an Active Sports Exhaust 
  that creates a race‑car inspired crescendo. 
  The exhaust system reacts to throttle position, speed 
  and engine revs by opening active valves. When open, 
  these valves allow exhaust gases to take a more direct,
  less restrictive route through the rear silencer
  producing a much richer, more exhilarating sound. Where
  fitted, the Switchable Active Exhaust, allows you to
  manually open the exhaust valves so you can enjoy
  F‑TYPE’s stirring soundtrack at all engine speeds. This 
  feature is optional on F‑TYPE and standard on all other 
  models.

basically, above a certain price point cars are designed for stupid wankers

There are plenty of high perf/luxury cars which are very quiet. I think there are customers at every price point who want ridiculously loud exhausts.

A few years ago some Ford cars had been found to amplify their engine noise through the speakers. At least they kept it to the driver.

lots of cars have this today

So, it turns out there are people who enjoy different things than you do. No need to insult them because of that.

The whole intentionally loud thing is a bit different than just differing tastes, as it is inflicted upon unrelated bystanders.

> above a certain price point

Maybe lower than you think... several Ford products over the last few years have done things like run sound tubes to the cabin or use the radio to simulate engine noise. I think it's kind of silly myself, but whatever.

> cars are designed for stupid wankers

Or at least people with different interests. Just because you think your own interests make sense doesn't mean other people have to agree or share the same interests that you do.

There's a similar story about the Audi S4 V8's exhaust note. The engineers wanted it to be louder than they thought their management would approve. So, what they did is demo a version that was louder than what they wanted, and when management complained they reduced it to what they wanted to begin with.

Mobile friendly:

> Every F‑TYPE is fitted with an Active Sports Exhaust that creates a race‑car inspired crescendo.

> The exhaust system reacts to throttle position, speed and engine revs by opening active valves. When open, these valves allow exhaust gases to take a more direct, less restrictive route through the rear silencer producing a much richer, more exhilarating sound. Where fitted, the Switchable Active Exhaust, allows you to manually open the exhaust valves so you can enjoy F‑TYPE’s stirring soundtrack at all engine speeds. This feature is optional on F‑TYPE and standard on all other models.

So essentially a muffler bypass valve? You can buy aftermarket valves like this from Summit Racing and JEGS - they aren't expensive, they come in a variety of styles (full manual where you have to unbolt them underneath the car, manual-actuated by a cable, electric actuated by a motor, and one company makes a "stealth" version).

Legality of use on public roads varies...

There are. Look for "Pass-by Noise". There are standards on how to conduct these tests, and in Europe there are active regulations on maximum emissions already in place. It's coming to the US soon too. In the case of the supercars, IIRC the maximum noise is somehow tied to HP or engine displacement so that these guys can get away with more noise.

Disclaimer: I work with acoustics simulation software and am currently involved with simulating these kind of tests.

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