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justicezyx

To be clear 1v1 mid lane is harder than 1 unit v 1 unit in sc. But it is at least 3 levels behind 5v5 human play.

So first it's laining, which is showing in the game.

Then is the ganking basically 2-3 player working together.

Above that that's 5 men team fight.

Then you have the strategy planning in the band pick phase, and in game movement coordination.

There are other things like item choices, in game communication etc.

I guess bots never tilt...

This 1v1 match is definitely a proof of the strength and maturity of modern AI.

It will be extremely interesting to see if they can train a bot to achieve the above intelligence. If so, I guess the game is pretty much losing a lot of its appeal.

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The micromanagement task in StarCraft Broodwar (with TorchCraft) that has been used by a few people already in the past year to do some RL research has been tackled basically only with #units > 1, because getting a balanced 1v1 is possible only with certain combination of units, and it's indeed pointless otherwise.

Kiting is maybe a notable exception, but it is also restricted to a relatively small group of unit matchups.

See for instance the following papers:

- https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.02993

- https://arxiv.org/abs/1702.08887

- https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.10069

- https://arxiv.org/abs/1705.08926

Full disclosure: I'm one of such researchers, and I have authored some of the papers on the topic.

I'm not sure about DOTA, but in LOL there is also champion select which happens before the game starts, where you try to pick/ban/steal champions to get a good team comp and get the other team to have a bad team comp. It's lots of know overall strategy, what your enemy likes, and some game theory.

You can lose the game before your summoner even hits the field.

Yep it's called Drafting

Main difference is all Dota heroes are viable in competitive. Also, there's no mirror match

Only 3 heroes not picked in TI, iirc. It hasn't always been this diverse though. This patch is particularly well balanced.

Picked heroes have been >80% since TI3. Compare that to LoL's ~50%

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4n5og5/com...

Out of 112 heroes which are currently available in Captain's Mode, 107 have been picked at least once during the group stage and main event. Two (Lion and Tiny) have each been banned once but never picked, and three (Bane, Spectre, and Skele-- er, Wraith King) have not been picked or banned.

https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/events/197/picks

Put my war3 dota hat on... LoL is a simplified dota which are tailored to less-skilled players. The basic elements are all the same.

Yup, that's exactly the same in DOTA. The pick phase is considered by some commentators to be the most interestingly strategic part of the entire game!

(At a pro level, obviously. At the level I play at, not so much...)

How does having a bot succeed cause appeal to be lost? First you're suggesting that the strategy will be "found" and never beaten (no room for improvement, not even in hero selection). Secondly.. Chess & Go have been around for thousands of years and they still are played en masse daily.

> How does having a bot succeed cause appeal to be lost?

You might think not beating bots is OK. Not for me and many people have been involved in competitive scene. The moment machine beats human, a large part of the competition is gone. The essence is that you want to be the best. But if all you can do is to beat some other inferior opponents, what's the point?

> Secondly.. Chess & Go have been around for thousands of years and they still are played en masse daily.

This is irrelevant.

Human Chess players lost against Deep Blue in 1997; people still play Chess. In fact, they've learned a lot of strategies from the strategically superior AI.

We've had forklifts for decades and plenty of people still enter power lifting competitions.

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