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The feminist movement as a whole is very much against gendered norms about who should and shouldn't be a kindergarten teacher. Which feminist movements did you see fanning these particular flames?

3rd wave, whose actions betray their true goals: men as second class citizens.

Please keep ideological talking points off HN. If you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; otherwise please don't comment until you do.

The onus is on you to disprove them, they made no irrational claims. If you have some problem with any of their concepts, say so.

Your attack on whether his comment is 'thoughtful' or not is weak.

If you could point out to us here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism where it says that all so-called or self-described third wave feminists see men as second class citizens that would be super helpful in this debate.

Please don't take HN threads further down generic ideological rabbit holes, or rather black holes. Nothing good comes of them and the thread never returns.

Understood. No problem.

There we go. Thanks.

As a moderator here I'm commenting purely procedurally. The comment breaks the HN guidelines and when people do that we ask them not to.

To be fair, movements are generally made up from people self-identify as members and thus movements get judged based on what those people say.

This happened in Sweden, and in one article I recall reading the comment that "there is no need for male kindergarten teachers" from local politician from the left block which identify as feminist (current left block call themselves as a feminist government). The left block was also in power during that time which created those restriction for male teachers. One argument used to defend those restriction was that science showed that most criminals of this kind is male, and thus argued that male employees were higher risk.

It would be hard to say anything about "The feminist movement as a whole". At the time, no movement was stepping up in support of the male kindergarten teachers.

Like with all movements, there are a lot of people who join on and don't seem to really understand it. Intersectionality is catching on among feminists, but "men bad, women good" is still a way too common sentiment.

I desperately want make male childcare workers for my children. I honestly could careless about women in tech. Installing a more even view of gender on our kids will prob do a lot more good for women in tech in the long term than any amount of screaming now.

I've known of at least one child care/early education facility that employee fairly equal numbers. It's interesting how some kids (male and female) just respond better to men.

Yeah, I am a good mom and all, but the kids do interact somewhat differently to my husband. I support diversity. It's good to be diverse jsut in general, life is more interesting that way, and it really bugs me how in such a critical period of a person's life, their exposure is so so so not diverse.

Do tell me where in the country is this daycare located at....

http://hilltopcc.com/

Great place.

For the lazy, because it takes some doing to figure out - this is in Seattle.

If you/anyone would like to watch an exceptional narrative based on this exact premise, you have to see The Hunt w/ Mads Mikkelsen [0]

It really sums up this issue well and gave me lots to think about.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunt_(2012_film)

This was my first thought on the male childcare thing,too Could not make it past the first 30 minutes, felt so much empathy for Mads' situation and anger at the teacher/administrator for assuming guilt immediately. The fact that the director/writer gave us an omniscient view point with the sex acts happening in front of the child at home sort of forced one into Mads' corner right away.

I suppose this is the one point I always find myself pondering when these women in tech arguments arise, why is there no push to for women in the oil-manufacturing industry? How many women do we have working on oil rigs? It's a very well paying job with a lot of opportunity for people with less than stellar backgrounds, but trying to get their life on track. There are lots of jobs out there that are close to 100% male, and some don't even require a lot of physical strength. Where is the outcry?

I'm sure there's similar movements in other industries, and I'm sure there's someone in their forums saying something similar.

Any proof of that ?

Of course I only have a myopic point of view of the software industry but I don't hear the same noise from other industries

Not that myopic; gender in tech is front page news in the mainstream press. Not so much about any other industry.

Maybe you have a point, I should look into this and see if there are forums where women are trying to push into this field. I have family that works on off-shore rigs, and I've never heard a peep about it. But that is anecdotal.

It's a very well paying job with a lot of opportunity

Dangerous tho'. By the way, apropos of nothing, 95% of workplace deaths are men.

This so much; after a pedophile case hit in Amsterdam, where a day care worker molested 80 kids, a lot of male daycare and elementary school workers either lost their job or quit from all the distrust. There's rules everywhere that men aren't allowed to be alone with children.

>both the left, the feminist movement, and the right fanned the flame against male teachers

I find it hard to believe that this would be generally true. Source?

Edit: obviously you're always going to have some twats doing things like that, but that's true for everything. I'm looking for evidence that it's more than average here.

I think it is a lot of crazy moms that fan the flame, just from my observation. Adn the crazy moms are fanned by the media of creepy dudes. Do you know how frequently on my mommy group will be some dude's photo show up "this guy was taking picture of my kid!!!" ....... all the other moms are like. OMG OMG OMG!! Call the police.. Then there are always a few moms go like, FOR WHAT??!! for being a dude and taking some pictures at a public place.. You know there hasn't been a child missing in this neighborhood since 1995.... Then all the other moms yell at the reasonable mom..etc etc. There is a mix, I don't think it's limited to leftist or conservative moms. If anything, I found the really really rich moms (not conservative per se, but lean that way more) to be a bit more crazy in terms of thinking the world is dangerous and if their kid scrap their knee they need to go to the ER..

Yeah, what? The standard bearers of leftist feminism, soccer moms?

I second the request. I spent several years as a K-5 teacher, I didn't perceive this dynamic at all. All US teachers are rightfully extremely wary of being alone with any child, and from what I've seen that is a concern for teachers of all genders.

The specific case was in 2015, Sweden, Kristianstad (if you want to search for sources). The media storm grow a bit extra since the individual had worked as a substitute in 26 different schools and the potential list of victims was very large. Now in 2017 I hope that most of the male-only restrictions are gone. People forget, new fears replaces old fears, and risk assessments get realign.

Random article of the time: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/skane/pedofilanklagelserna...

Random article #2: http://www.tv4.se/efter-tio/klipp/barnsk%C3%B6taren-mitt-liv...

It was a couple years ago and I could not hope to find all the media articles from that time, including radio and TV reports. But I wish that no teachers should ever need to be wary of being alone with a child. It seems similar when I hear people that they should be wary of being alone with female coworkers in fear of being accused of sexual assault.

Edit: I did consider when I wrote the above comment yesterday that I might be doing the exact same harm that the Female engineers in the article was worried about by bringing up the case. At the same time it was one of the reasons why it so strongly reminded me of this case. As a teacher, do you find it that writing this on HN is harming teachers by bringing up pedophilia in the context of kindergarten teachers?