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Comment by genon | Hacker News Reader

> Do you think that businesses shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against skateboarders, or people who refuse to wear shirts and shoes?

I don't believe that businesses should be allowed to discriminate against anyone who is behaving in a lawful manner.

Is that belief what you're calling a "weird personal ideology"?

> Do you have an similar argument for why Nazis shouldn't be fired, or why we shouldn't consider whether the people that we do business with employ, or are, Nazis?

If someone's beliefs don't negatively affect their ability to do their job, why should they be fired for their beliefs? Should Democrats be fired? Should atheists? Are "Nazis" the only people capable of bias and discrimination?

Likewise, why should someone's beliefs be a factor in whether I do business with them? If I'm buying something from someone why would anything other than price and quality of the product or service even come up?

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> why should someone's beliefs be a factor in whether I do business with them? If I'm buying something from someone why would anything other than price and quality of the product or service even come up?

Okay, let's make an example. Let's make a really blatant one.

Imagine you're Jewish. Furthermore, imagine there are two bakeries in town: Bob's Bakery, and Pastry 88.

All of the people working at both of them are perfectly civil when you go in to buy a donut. But everyone in town knows that Al Hilter, the guy who owns Pastry 88, is a Nazi. And now and then Mr. Hilter takes out ads in the local paper espousing his Jew-killing views.

Bob's Bakery and Pastry 88 are right across the street from each other. You have a hankering for a donut. Where are you gonna go to fulfill this desire?

Let's make it a little more complicated: Pastry 88 makes an amazing lemon-filled donut, and Bob's Bakery Bob's kid has a major lemon allergy. So you can't buy anything with lemons in it at Bob's. And you love lemon donuts. Do you love lemon donuts enough to give money to someone who has said that you should be gassed and have your tanned skin used for lampshades?

Let's make it even more complicated. Bob believes absolutely everything Al does, in fact his views are somehow even worse than Al's, but because he's not allowed to express his opinion nobody knows what he really thinks and he can only plan his genocide in secret.

Is it okay for me to buy donuts from him then?

Also, neither business is carbon neutral, nor do they plan to be. Refusing to buy doughnuts is implicit fat shaming, so you have to buy from somewhere. Due to a local endangered species deciding to build nests on the only road into town, no doughnuts can be shipped in from the outside.

I'm beginning to think that the only reasonable thing to do in the ridiculous hypothetical is to lease another corner on the same intersection and open up "Solomon Cohen's Pro-Semitic, Lemon-Friendly Bagel Shop and Delicatessen".

> I don't believe that businesses should be allowed to discriminate against anyone who is behaving in a lawful manner.

This principle doesn't seem very robust. Can a bar refuse entry to children? Can a cinema kick someone out for talking during a movie? Can a dance club have a dress code?

> Can a bar refuse entry to children?

If it's legal for children to enter a bar, I don't see why a bar should be able to refuse entry to children.

> Can a cinema kick someone out for talking during a movie?

If they're causing a problem for other people in the cinema and refuse to stop, sure. A right to be access a product or service shouldn't override other people's right to get what they paid for.

So for "lawful manner" in my above post: "lawful manner, or manner that doesn't negatively impact other customers".

> Can a dance club have a dress code?

If a club wants to only allow a specific type of member then it should be a private club.

> If a club wants to only allow a specific type of member then it should be a private club.

All clubs are private, they just have varying degrees of specificity in their entrance requirements.

That's really the entire point here. Private entities have the right to choose who they will do business with unless the law prevents them from doing so, as it does in many cases (sex, race, etc).

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