Infiniti’s Prototype 9 is a modern electric car with 1940s retro racer roots | Hacker News Reader

Infiniti’s Prototype 9 is a modern electric car with 1940s retro racer roots

techcrunch.com

36 pointsjanober24 comments

The actual stats look depressing. 105mph top speed, 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 20 minutes of racing before being drained... Doesn't the Tesla Model S beat this on pretty much everything except "looking like a 1940's race car"?

This probably says more about me than anything else but I dont think I've ever built a prototype of anything thats outperformed a production model product.

I think a prototype should outperform production cars in at least one stat. Else what's the point ?

Research and development

Scoping the problem, and looking for non-obvious traps that might sink the project.

Agreed. I'm probably being a bit too picky about the language. I'd have a different response if this was "an electric car inspired by 1940's racers" [0], but was very disappointing when I thought I was reading about a "race car prototype".

[0] I think it looks awesome, and they certainly did a great job with the aesthetics.

That's not bad for such skinny tires. Anyway it's a concept car, so making it drivable in any way was an afterthought.

A 90s pickup truck with the higher end engine option will barely beat it in top speed and blow it out of the water in endurance.

This is a concept car and will likely see a lot of 20min runs on the track to determine if they want to do more testing of whatever it is they're testing here.

Tesla Model S:

0-60: 2.8 sec Top Speed: 155mph Range: 337 miles

This has 20 minutes of racing time. That's about 4x more than a Model S will do before it overheats and goes into turtle mode.

Seems like modern top-line racing cars do 30-45 minutes between pit stops across formats and styles. 20 minutes is within a factor of two. For a prototype that's pretty solid, and I take it as a message that the technology is approaching parity.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_stop#Frequency

I'd look at Formula E if I wanted to see parity.

Is that anything more than cooling? Obviously that huge grill on the prototype helps massively with that. I'm sure a Tesla that's not concerned with being a functional sedan could manage to dissipate enough heat to prevent that.

Choice of battery tech is a big one.

Basically, you can do like Tesla and go with LiCoNiAlO2 to get the highest possible energy density, at the cost of higher internal resistance (i.e. dumping lots of current produces lots of heat).

Or you can do like Formula-E cars (or RC helicopters, drones etc.) and go with LiFePO4 and sacrifice some range for the ability to dump massive amounts of current all the way to empty.

Cooling is fine and dandy, but it's hard to make efficient cooling reach into the internals of batteries. Reducing heat buildup pays greater dividends.

Ah, got it. Though it only worsens my confusion over why they can't dump enough current to do better than 0-60 in 5.5 seconds... Do those other technologies also have lower current output overall due to the lower energy density?

No, the comparatively high 0-60 time is mainly because of the tiny engine - 148 bhp and 236 torques (in freedom units), versus 605 bhp and 687 torques for the top-spec Model S. Also the tires on this thing would just make a lot of noise and smoke if you tried putting 600+ torques through them.

But putting it into perspective with some other great cars on the racetrack: the 2017 Honda Civic Type R is widely regarded as a bucket full of fun on a track, and would likely beat a Model S around the Nürburgring Nordschliefe even if the Model S didn't overheat; yet it "only" does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds.

And in general, 0-60 isn't useful at all on an actual race track because if you're spending time doing less than 60 mph, you're Doing It Wrong. Keep in mind the aerodynamics (spoilers, splitters, diffusers etc.) that make racecars actually work, only become effective once you're doing at least 80 mph, preferrably a lot more.

Take a look at Richard Hammond on the Top Gear episode where he gets to drive an actual F1 car to see what I mean. Mostly he spends his time not being able to go around corners because he's driving too slowly.

https://youtu.be/kUhB0JKjJrQ

The whole thing is made of steel instead of lighter weight materials. I'm sure that has some impact as well.

It really is a beautiful car though.

I am, as this very moment, timing a national level UK race meet, and none of the 13 events this morning has yet to go over 15 minutes.

20 minutes per race is more than enough to take part in regular national race meets here in the UK.

Getting tired of concepts that I can't buy. Hell, I'm tired of extremely limited production cars (e.g. Hyundai Ionic electric, '17 e-Golf) that I can't reasonably get despite trying for months.

Let me know when it's available in volume.

It's not meant for you. There are as of late a lot of really small car manufactures focusing on what I would call "alternative luxury vehicles". If you watch the Youtube Channel, JayLenosGarage, he features them quite regularly. It's meant to be nothing more than an expensive toy for grown men.

This is viral marketing to build a stodgy, old world reputation for the Infiniti brand. Its purpose is to shape consumer attitudes, not to be sold.

> Hell, I'm tired of extremely limited production cars (e.g. Hyundai Ionic electric, '17 e-Golf) that I can't reasonably get despite trying for months.

I've not heard of any problems around Europe of anyone struggling to order them. Are dealers literally unwilling to take an order, or is the delivery time just too long? Or is this about what cars dealers stock? At least here my impression has always been the only people buying cars from stock are those who are time-sensitive, and AFAIK they often go for a slight premium as a result.

Okay, so the car looks cool. And has no roll-over protection, so the car clearly supposed to be driven at anything above walking speed. Exposed wheels are terrible for aerodynamics.

From the article:

20 minutes of aggressive track racing on that battery pack with a full charge

Another interesting thing about the Prototype 9 is that it uses steel throughout

If the battery only lasts ~20 minutes I don't think body weight was much of a concern.

Other sources are claiming the electric motor sounds a lot like the one driving the new Nissan Leaf[1].

1. https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/14/16143962/infiniti-prototy...

I'd like to see footage of it doing a few laps at top speed, sadly slow motion close-ups of the wheel seemed to have higher priority.

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