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Comment by pxlpshr | Hacker News Reader

It's not that people hate lifestyle businesses, it's that a lot of people inappropriately label their lifestyle businesses as "startups". For the people that have worked 70+ hours a week, took no salary, and have lived through the pain, blood, tears, sweat in an attempt to build a sustainable business -- it's kind of a slap in the face.

I used to run a lifestyle business (ad agency), worked 40 hours a month and netted almost a quarter a year. However, I left to that to not just pursue fu money but more importantly, build a purpose-driven business that hopefully enabled me to spend my later life dedicated to philanthropy.

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I don't understand why it is inappropriate to label it a startup. By your definition 37signals is not a startup because they made money early on and don't work more than 40 hours per week.

It seems like the childish / teenaged measuring stick he talked about regarding revenue or employee size. Like it isn't a real business/startup if you don't work 70+ hours per week and earn no money quickly.

I don't believe that DHH and Jason work less than 40 hours a week. Maybe they do now, 10 years later, but I think they've burned plenty of midnight oil that would put BP to shame.

I don't understand why people who want a relaxed work environment label themselves a startup. That's like saying you're a marine but have never gone through bootcamp.

> I don't understand why people who want a relaxed work environment label themselves a startup.

Why not? I know some people want to take claim of the term because they chose one path that may have had more sacrifices but their way isn't the only way.

Hours worked per week is one of the least significant factors in defining "startup" for me.

I agree it's not the only way but it's by far the majority. More importantly though, most founders don't consider it "work" so I think that's where we have a disconnect. Startups are intense, that doesn't mean it's not enjoyable.

http://www.paulgraham.com/really.html.

I don't understand the fascination people have with comparing how many hours a week they work. Like someone is going to applaud you for working 70+ hours a week? I really don't see how that should be important to anyone but you.

IMHO, the proper definition of a startup should be a business that's starting up. It's fucking ludicrous to decide that there is only one kind of way to start a business that qualifies it as being a "startup".

If you see it as a "slap in the face" that you're working 70+ hours and someone else isn't, the problem isn't them... it's you. Are you jealous that they're get more done in less time than you? Or perhaps jealous that they picked their business model better so that they don't have to do as much as you do? Or maybe you were hoping that somehow other people would be impressed with your "heroic", "macho" levels of work, when in reality, nobody cares how many hours you put in.

So you're suggesting that semantic meaning is not important? :)

Most incubators explicitly state "no lifestyle businesses." I don't think it's that ludicrous since the term startup is often misunderstood, much like the concept of lean.

I agree that working a lot isn't necessarily working smarter, that was not the point.

Just out of interest, why did you leave that business when you only had to work on it 40 hours a week. You probably could have started your second business at the same time.

Client services never end. After I shut it down and moved to LA to focus full-time on a video game startup -- I still had lingering client work and it's a distraction when you're completely absorbed, and creative work is very draining mentally. Programming and designing are not dissimilar in that regard.

Before I moved, I was working on a second business building customizable home theater projection screens but we got stiff armed by our supplier after building a better product on their frame and pissing off their other dealers. I was too inexperienced at the time to know how to handle it.

Aren't you conflating lifestyle businesses with service based businesses? Not every lifestyle business is necessarily a service based business.

In a service based business like ad agencies, web design agencies, you don't get paid unless you're continuing to do the work. I wouldn't really consider them lifestyle businesses either.

But if you're selling a product or software-as-a-service that can scale beyond how much time you are putting into it (e.g. a traditional startup), then you could certainly build that into a lifestyle business by avoiding taking external funding and growing it to profitability.

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