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Comment by tobyhinloopen | Hacker News Reader

Cars are major polluters, right? Or is my life a lie?

The top seven or so shipping ships produce more air pollution than all the worlds cars combined ...

So one could say yes to your question, depending on what you call "major".

That pollution happens over the ocean, where it has little effect on humans' health. As of 2016, heavily polluting ships are not allowed within 200 miles of the US.

Particulates/sulfur emissions from bunker fuel (burned by cargo ships) are not the same as CO2 emissions. It's disingenuous to use "pollution" ambiguously to push a narrative.

We can electrify land mobility while also moving ocean going vessels to ultra low sulfur diesel or compressed natural gas. All of the above are cost effective today.

> It's disingenuous to use "pollution" ambiguously to push a narrative.

That's something that should be taken up with the dozens of reputable newspapers from whom I have drawn that information (e.g. the Guardian, quoted above).

That's a false statement.

They produce a lot Air pollution of a very specific type because their fuel includes a lot of sulfur. In terms of total pollution ships are actually a small fraction.

Further, releasing sulfur over the ocean does not impact human or animal heath significantly.

I take it you believe the Guardian is wrong / misleading / imprecise here? (as are a dozen or so more recent articles)

- https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/apr/09/shipping...

> One giant container ship can emit almost the same amount of cancer and asthma-causing chemicals as 50m cars, study finds

> Confidential data from maritime industry insiders based on engine size and the quality of fuel typically used by ships and cars shows that just 15 of the world's biggest ships may now emit as much pollution as all the world's 760m cars.

It's imprecise in that it refers to pollution that is harmful to human health as if it is the only type of pollution. It says right at the bottom of the article that shipping as a whole is responsible for only 3.5 to 4 percent of climate change emissions.

The shipping industry needs to get its act together too but it isn't _that_ significant when it comes to climate change. In terms of sulphur based pollutants it's pretty horrifying, though.

> The shipping industry ... isn't _that_ significant when it comes to climate change. In terms of sulphur based pollutants it's pretty horrifying, though.

Thanks, that certainly clarifies.

Worth also noting that it would be trivial for the ships to burn fuel with less sulphur in it. The big issue in getting international agreement to enforce the change. There's no technical hurdle or complicated logistical challenge such as is being overcome to swap all ICE passenger cars for EVs.

Major, yes, top 20? LOL.

Each passebger jet flight you take likely puts out more pollution than you will do in your car in years, as will a campfire. The hippies are a bit backward these days.

It's not fair to compare a 747 (which produces a lot of pollution) with a family car when the 747 carries 300+ people and travels far more miles.

If you look at pollution-per-passenger-mile then jet transport is now more efficient and less polluting than light cars: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_juice/2014/07/dri... and https://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/09/evolving-clim...

This is definitely true, but it's also a little disingenuous to compare in pollution-per-passenger-mile because commercial flight makes traveling further so much easier.

With the ability to travel from JFK to LAX in 6 hours, significantly more people are traveling far distances that they wouldn't have bothered to travel if the only option was train/cars.

Speaking as someone who likes to fly to remote places, planes may be more efficient per mile, but people travel significantly further in them and likely end up contributing quite a bit more to global warming than people who don't fly and just drive to a lake a few hours away instead.

Don't forget that planes release their pollution higher up in the atmosphere which intensifies the global warming effect.

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