Comment by trapperkeeper74 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by trapperkeeper74 | Hacker News Reader

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trapperkeeper74

Basically, the US needs a national ID "card" with PKI system... not to rob people of their privacy but to free them from the tyranny of marketplace anarchy which resulted in the absence of global unique person identifier de-facto globbing onto a number meant for pensioner and disabled benefits. Basically, it should be illegal to use SSNs for anything but Social Security. Taxes should have a tax ID for taxes alone. Instead, secure public key systems to authorize or refuse requests with authenication and nonrepudiation, using a public identifier that can be shared widely but isn't also a magic access authorization detail.

As it happens, IIRC, circa 2000, US schools and universities had to change their databases and systems to not use SSN's as student IDs because of identity theft problems extending from this very core problem.

The US through law must deleverage SSNs and make them public-safe, and promote/mandate a real PKI non-profit system for authentication and authorization for the greater good.

Good luck. There's a significant part of the US that gets their panties in a bunch whenever you mention something close to a national ID - which this would be.

So, instead we have an extremely crappy national ID in form of SSN cards, but I'm fairly certain that same crowd would also be happy to end social security - so at least they're consistent.

Would there be a point to a national ID outside taxation? Is that the only reason a State would need to have identifiers for its citizens? Credit can be managed without centralized identities so what is the nessecity of a State ID?

I have used my national ID for:

- Applying for university

- Managing my student loan

- Registering a company

- Delivering taxes

- Changing health provider options

All online (various different services). This is in Norway. Actually the electronic state ID systems supports multiple identity providers, I mostly use the one from my bank. Which them also covers all my banking needs.

State IDs manage state administered stuff. E.g. your driver's license. Pretty much every state has a ID that can stand in place of a license for ID but doesn't have anything to do with driving.

With current technology there's no technical or practical (other than inertia) reason federal services couldn't use state IDs. There's only 50 states, not N states. A 50-case switch wouldn't be that bad. ID requirements between states aren't so disparate that you couldn't get a good enough mapping.

The biggest hurdle to ANY effective ID system for individual people is that ID is a composite key. There are many Joe Smiths in the US. There are many Joe Smiths in a state. There are probably a handful of Joe smiths with the same birth date. There are possibly multiple Joe Smiths born on the same day that look similar and share a zip code.

People don't have unique identifiers other than DNA and even then if you don't do a good job processing it you're not guaranteed accuracy and I don't think we're at a point where we trust any .gov with that level of info about us.

So far we've been able to squeak by with just using really ugly composite keys.

We're in the process of figuring out composite keys don't work :)

And yes, State + State ID is a decent substitute for a national ID. Because it is a national ID. Except that some states will implement it in the shittiest way possible, and so we end up with even more of a lowest common denominator than if the states negotiated a standard.

And one could reasonably make the case that in this day and age, IDs fall under the Commerce Clause.

Here's the ugly truth: People are objecting to a national ID because it's an easy-to-parrot talking point. The rational objections are on thin ground. (Basically, the downsides are already existing anyways, we're just not getting the upsides. Because ideological purity. Yes, I mean you, ACLU)

The UK manages well enough with out a national id (seen as to Gestapo).

And if the USA had national ID it would be used to harass BME citizens ala Sherif Joe

The air travel system in the US is run by the Feds. They require identification documents from passengers. This creates a defacto need for a national ID, although at present the issue is being fudged by use of state-issued driver's licenses (which the Feds won't accept as usable in the case of several states).

The same crowd also appear to be the ones worried about voter fraud, so they're consistency has limits.

You should at least present their argument charitably if you're going to call them hypocrites. They have no issues with state IDs which is what would be presented at the polls since you vote in your state's elections.

Look, when the ACLU is against national IDs you have to at least admit that the idea is worth discussing. https://www.aclu.org/other/5-problems-national-id-cards

Uh, no. The ACLU has many merits, but no, their ideas are not implicitly worth discussing. They're also the ones in favor of Illinois Nazis.

They represent both the best (a strong belief in an ideal of humanity, and a fervent desire to make the world a fair and open place) and the worst (ideological purity über alles) of the left.

And I say that as a card-carrying ACLU member :)

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