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Comment by asmithmd1 | Hacker News Reader

From the article:

"So why is air travel, among the most differentiated experiences we have in the normal course of life, purchased by so many people as a commodity?"

So not true. A restaurant is a much more differentiated experience and also a "perishable" one that people are willing to pay a premium for. JetBlue has TV's and SouthWest has free luggage but you can't pick your seat -- what other differences are there between airlines?

I you think you hit the nail on the head with the airlines destruction of any price/value correlation. The table next to me might be getting a free appetizer or desert but they are not going to be paying 1/5 or 5x as much as I am.

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> So not true. A restaurant is a much more differentiated experience and also a "perishable" one that people are willing to pay a premium for.

Yes but a meal at a restaurant is the primary experience. People are deliberately seeking a good one as eating a fine meal is their intent. Flying an airplane is just a means to an end. An annoyance really. And in that mind set most people aren't going to care, myself included.

Also, as soon as you start treating air travel as an experience to be enjoyed rather than tolerated, it quickly becomes apparent that it's really bad value compared to ground-based enjoyable experiences.

For instance, I can fly from LAX to Sydney for, say, one thousand dollars in economy, or (goes to check fares) sixteen thousand dollars in First Class. That's a thirteen-hour flight, so you're paying more than a thousand dollars an hour for whatever extra pleasure you get by sitting in a nicer seat, eating a nicer meal, and being brought drinks by a prettier stewardess.

Alternatively, I could eat at the best restaurant in town for $200 and then go and sleep in a fabulous hotel room for $500. That's a far better pleasure-quantum-per-dollar ratio than anything you can get in the air.

Indeed, for the price of a trans-Pacific first class ticket, you could stay in a hotel room designed to look like a first class cabin, hire a comely young lady to bring you (and only you) all the cranberry juice you could drink in 16 hours, eat the best meal in town, get to pick your own movie, and have your doctor prescribe you something so that you spend the next actual plane flight unconscious.

Of all the fantasies I've ever heard which involve a hotel room, a comely young lady, fifteen thousand dollars and all-you-can-drink cranberry juice, that's the dullest, I'm sorry.

That's why I think there should be premium airlines which perform aerobatic maneuvers occasionally throughout the flight, because that would be entertaining. Bigger seats and better food? These people just don't know how to create an enjoyable experience inside an airplane.

Hardly anyone pays out-of-pocket for first-class tickets. I suspect 90% of premium cabin passengers are flying on their company's dime, have been upgraded, are using awards, or are non-revenue passengers. The few who pay their own way skew toward the investment banker side of things.

If a company is flying someone from A to B to negotiate a hundred million dollar deal, $10,000 for an airline ticket that ensures they can work on the flight and arrive fully refreshed and prepared is absolutely worth it. And that fare also to a certain extent subsidizes the people in Economy. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it.

It's only worth it if it makes a difference in performance. That's far from established fact.

You point is analogous to the idea of sales and marketing in start-up culture. Essentially how do you prove that this multimillion dollar deal was the result of the person being "fresh" rather than the product itself etc. As far as I know if you're being flown out as a sales rep already, you have to be an utter asshole for the customer to change his mind. The product/engineering teams are the ones that actually have to impress them. In all honesty when a company through a rep wine and dines a client, the rep wine and dines themselves.

Conversation like this are not unknown:

"We need you to fly to <FarFarAway>, urgently!"

"Business class?"

"No"

"OK I'm not going then"

"Business class it is then!"

It's fine to suffer in coach during international flights if you're a vacationer who only takes one or two long trips per year - totally different if you're a frequent flyer. I'd be extremely reluctant to take any job that required me to fly international coach regularly.

That demonstrates a sense of entitlement. I'm looking for some evidence that flying business class improves performance on arrival compared to economy. Totally different things.

On an overnight flight? Huge difference in performance, at least if you're me. I can't sleep at all in economy, which if you're flying 20+ hours is a really big problem.

I've never tried first class, but I'm sure it'd be much easier to sleep up there, what with the lie-flat beds and all.

It's the whole business class package. Fast track through security, a quiet lounge where you can work, enough carry-on that you never need to check a bag, etc etc. Plus you get to only be around frequent flyers, so no hassle with people who don't know that they should take their keys out of their pockets BEFORE reaching security...

Several airlines now are doing flat beds in Business and private cabins in First.

earplugs, sleep mask, ambien.

They're also different. I flew from Perth to basically Washington DC about a month ago, including a 13ish hour flight from Sydney to LA, in economy, and I can tell you it's absolutely horrendous. Maybe it's just me but it was entirely unbearable, aside from boredom and not having enough leg room. The economy plus or whatever is seeming like a necessity almost, especially when you include a 13hr flight with another 5 hours either side.

That said, it did get me interested in a trans-Pacific airline, flying solely between Sydney-Melbourne-Auckland to LAX-SFO-whatever. Seems like it could be done much better for us who can't afford better tickets.

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