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Comment by Mz | Hacker News Reader

Fresno is really a great place. I was there for over two years. I don't know why it gets badmouthed so much. And, yes, compared to coastal big cities in California, it is dramatically cheaper.

They are starting a high speed rail line there. It is 500,000 people and much more spread out than the coastal big cities, so it is not nearly as dense. The bus system is the best I have ever seen in the US, so you can live without a car there, even though it sprawls. I have lived without a car for years and Fresno was a big improvement over previous experiences.

I considered doing a website* as an ode to the city/to promote a walkable lifestyle there. It didn't get off the ground and now I have moved out of state. But, if you want to stay in California and want to get away from some of the insanity in places like SF, I will second "just move to the Central Valley if you can arrange it."

http://pedestrianfresno.blogspot.com/

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The weather is miserable for half the year, and there’s less to do. A bunch of my extended family lives in Fresno and elsewhere in the Central Valley, but I can’t imagine living there.

The politicians they elect throughout the Central Valley are also absolutely bonkers.

So, serious question, explain to me why you think the weather is "miserable" and what is it you "do" all the time that you can't imagine living in Fresno?

I don't get it. There are national forests there. Woodward Park is huge. There is an international airport. What kinds of activities are you into that you can't get your needs met in a city of 500,000 people, about the 36th largest city in the US IIRC, which means there are entire states that don't have a city that big in them.

110 degrees in August.

That's it?

but you have AC!

And it's a dry heat.

I grew up in Georgia. I'll take 110 in a dry place with low humidity over 101 in air thick enough to slice with a knife any day.

I’m sure there’s all kinds of cool stuff in Fresno if you know where to look. It’s not the same as the Bay Area though.

That is generically true of any two places. But, you stated there was lots less to do there. I am curious what you are into that this seems to be true to you. What are your interests?

I was a military wife. I have lived all over. I just find your statements genuinely baffling and I would like to understand where you are coming from.

Meetups, museums, lectures by visiting scholars, stops on book tours, concerts/plays/other performances, cultural festivals, interesting architectural sites, professional sports, restaurants, a wide variety of interesting neighborhoods within walk distance, ....

There’s nothing wrong with Fresno. Plenty of lovely people live there, and I’m sure there are all sorts of things happening all the time. It just doesn’t (to me at least) seem comparable to the Bay Area. As one example, Fresno State is a fine school, but it can’t compete with Berkeley and Stanford.

The population density is also relatively low, and it doesn’t seem like a very easy place to live without frequently using a car. (I end up using a car about once a month.) I really appreciate being able to walk to 3 different grocery stores within a 3 block radius, walk to 10 coffee/tea shops, walk to 100 restaurants of every imaginable type, walk to the park, walk to 2 library branches, walk to several little art galleries, walk to bakeries and fish markets, walk to all sorts of little shops, walk to the subway, ...

It just doesn’t (to me at least) seem comparable to the Bay Area.

No, it isn't comparable. That is kind of the point here: If you are sick of the downside in the Bay Area of insane commutes, insane house prices, large numbers of increasingly aggressive homeless junkies, etc, then leaving might make more sense for some people than staying and hoping to fix some of these problems.

But thank you for giving me a meaty reply.

My wife commutes to work 10 minutes by bike. I haven’t been accosted by any homeless junkies, and all of the homeless people I have talked to recently have been either friendly or politely distant (usually they seem pretty starved for human interaction, and are really excited to have a baby wave at them). I go walking around town in the middle of the night (sometimes with my 14-month-old walking beside me) and have never felt unsafe. There are a lot of car window smash-and-grab thefts in the neighborhood, which is kind of unfortunate. And sometimes people steal packages left on doorsteps. Bike thefts are also common. None of those have affected me personally.

Housing prices are definitely a problem, but we are lucky to own a condo, so the main effect on us is a gradually gentrifying neighborhood (which process we are part of), which will probably mean less interesting neighbors in another 10 or 20 years.

I just got off the street recently. I am glad to see you say nice things about the homeless population there. I have not been in the Bay Area in some years. I am repeating some of the things I have read about it.

I am struggling to understand this discussion with you. Do you have some objection to the suggestion that people who are dissatisfied should consider the Central Valley as an alternative? It isn't like it is a gun to your head insisting people who are happy should leave.

No, people who like the Central Valley should definitely feel free to go live there!

I’m just saying I wouldn’t choose to. My original phrasing (“can’t imagine”) was probably a bit hyperbolic.

But no one is suggesting you do so. So, I am still baffled by this entire exchange.

Probably best to drop it though.

He replied in the same way one might at a party -- you say something, then he tries to relate to it. In this case, he was explaining why he can't relate.

Seemed like a natural exchange to me.

Well, I don't get out much, so I don't have those party chit chat experiences. Maybe that's the problem.

Chit chat isn't just for parties. Meeting new people is often enjoyable, though more fun if they're agreeable instead of complaining.

So much closer to the mountains! Real mountains, not hills.

That's because the Central Valley is basically as conservative as any Southern state.

It's the main reason why I left there to move to the bay. I just couldn't handle their politics anymore.

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