PowerPC Notebook Block Diagram
powerpc-notebook.org
powerpc-notebook.org
OpenPOWER seems to be quite open and free. Normally it's quite expensive though, although their main products seem to be aimed at servers.
Thought saying that, you always pay. Pay hard cash for a computer, or pay your privacy and freedom.
Having competition is probably part of what's needed to ensure that there's some control. The problem is that none of the competition is currently approaching it from a user freedom standpoint. After all, most companies making processors are publicly traded and even if they weren't, need to sell a huge volume of them to break even and have decent per-unit costs. So trying to target what is unfortunately a very tiny niche of users isn't going to go well.
And for the truly paranoid, it's impossible to prove that the processor wasn't tampered with, that there isn't a ring below yours. You can really only ever get to the point of being able to reasonably doubt the existence of it, which won't satisfy everyone.
I think Intel is digging its own grave by taking the worst stances on issues of user freedom. Eventually, if Intel ME's power over the machine continues to increase, something bad is going to happen as a result of it, and it's going to erode the already fragile trust people have in them. The ME exploit was part 1 of that.
But what about companies like AMD, or the hundreds of ARM manufacturers that take a more passive route of not caring about user freedom? There's no imaginable consequence for that. And there's no real benefit of reversing course, either. I can't see a future where open computing will be anything more than an extreme niche with sub-par options.
One of the better scenarios I can think of is that computing as we know it today becomes a niche itself and a lot of the users do value privacy and security. This seems plausible the better that Chromebooks and phones and tablets get; the average user won't need a computer tower or a laptop with 16 GB of RAM. But I imagine it won't be good news for the prices we currently enjoy :)
I think ARM SoCs are even worse. Try finding a full (or just partial) datasheet/technical documentation for anything like the ones used in recent smartphones and tablets, for example. They are going to want a NDA. The only ones publicly available were leaked. They also differ significantly between each other and often even within the same model line, so it's nothing like a PC where a lot of things still remain relatively standard.
ARM also has TrustZone, their DRM technology of which there is almost no public documentation.
ARM doesn't mandate how TrustZone is used, it just provides the technology. If SoC designers use it to force DRM into their products, it's not really ARM's fault.
Also, just to make it clear, it is not ARM's fault if ARM based SoCs lack proper documentation.
If you're thinking of someone like MediaTek, Allwinner or the like: they aren't really in the merchant chip business. They pretty much design a chip for a single large project and supply it with support chips, (usually crummy) drivers, and even a linux or android port as a "complete unit". Often there isn't really a data sheet as such; they send some engineers along to help with integration.
This, by the way, was the original meaning of "SoC" when people were starting to think of common hardware/software codesign in the 1990s: a purpose-built chip for a specific design built out of a combination of standard IP and custom circuitry, but conventionally fabbed instead of being FPGA. Think of it as integration of some of the board design onto a single die. The IP market people thought at the time would eventually develop didn't really, though.
Intel and AMD are still in the good‡ old days of data sheets, second sourcing (pretty much dead but it's still in those companies' DNA) etc.
‡ and they were good times IMHO.
Neither do I and probably also operating systems developers, but having control doesn't imply having constantly to fiddle with all internal hardware bits of a machine with no remaining time to do actual things (if you meant this I'm totally with you on this one). To me having control means preventing others to do things behind our backs, sort of a switch we use only once to turn off that crap, and keep under watch just to prevent others to use it. Public information about ME and similar subsystems should help us to do that.
It's possible to have 100% control of your computer without being able to being able to utilize it. At a higher level, take Linux as an example: I can certainly utilize it, but I still have 100% control over it. The difference here is that I have the option to change things as I see fit, even if I don't know how it works or even that it exists. Most of the time I leave it alone, but there are times where doing things like swapping out the window manager or driver can be helpful.
You're always welcome to design your own chips, then barter for them with pelts.
The result of this project thus far is totally underwhelming and I'd think whoever was donating to it not only didn't need that computer and could wait an indefinite amount of time for one, but is likely throwing their money away and may never get a product.
1: https://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers-and-processors...
Wait, who am I kidding: mips is still great.
Also, calling is easy. https://www.phoenicselectronics.com will sell you a Gigabyte MT30-GS2 (Cavium ThunderX 32-core) 1U system for around $2k. If you want to provide your own ATX case - much less.
Hardware is accessible, but there are a lot of big players buying things en masse, and the market isn’t oversaturated. This means long lead times and some price fluctuations. But things have been getting much better with every year (out of Arm servers’s whole 3 years of public availability). Definitely more accessible than anything OpenPower (which sadly will set you back the price of a small used Kia). The recent launch of third-gen Arm servers like the Qualcomm Centriq will lower the price for older kit.
This is yet another SBSA board with a low price and 1-click order: https://www.solid-run.com/marvell-armada-family/armada-8040-...
All ECC.
SolidRun MACCHIATObin? It's $369 and supports ECC.
https://www.solid-run.com/product/armada-8040-networking-com...
So while ppc is interesting for certain applications, I think the sky-is-falling type message is kind of off putting here.
There are generally two versions of the firmware which can be used. A light version normally used for personal computers and a heavy version normally used for servers.
The light version doesn’t contain the AMT module, the heavy one does.
If you are using the firmware that includes AMT, it can be disabled.
The problem is we don’t actually know what other modules are running, who can run modules and which ones use network access.
To my understanding some systems, but not all, implement wakeup-on-LAN for the ME, even, when the system is shut down but is still connected to a power source (which is true for most modern machines).
Lesson: don't read things when half asleep and then think you understand what you read.
I am confused, impressed that somebody still wants to make a powerpc laptop, but also underwhelmed by what essentially amounts to a generic description of a computer.
This if like saying a screensaver of a fire is better than actual fire in your fireplace since its newer. Ignoring the fact it doesn't come close to half the features of a real fire (except for maybe the risk of burning your house down).
But as a long term Apple user from before the the x86 era I can't deny there sentiment of going with the underdog :)
if you are at 1/8th of the bare metal performance, ona top of the line average x86 cpu from today, you still have more than the best PPC money can buy.
Even for memory and IO intensive tasks, where they are supposed to shine because of the obscenely huge in-cpu caches (when compared to x86) if you remember that the PPC state of the art IO standard is from 2004 and it could barely handle dual gigabit NICs.
I might be completely off and not knowing newer PPC offerings, but I doubt there are any since the early 2000's, when i last looked into all this.
tl;dr there is no "comparable" ppc in terms of clock speed to x86.
I infer that this is another PPC 440 design. Those chips top out at 1.2 GHz with just a couple cores, and they are a legacy product as far as Applied Micro is concerned -- AM is now focused on their ARM products.
At best, this project is a very pokey laptop from a near-dead Amiga OEM. At worst, it's a scam.
https://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers-and-processors...
These are popular CPU's in the networking world, but Freescale halted further PowerPC core development in favour of licensing cores from ARM.
It has 4 cores of 1.8 GHz.
It's barely usable for web browsing. Even with upgraded hardware (1.25GB RAM and a CF card instead of hard drive) Firefox on Ubuntu and TenFourFox on Mac OS X Tiger are really damn slow. OWB (WebKit) on MorphOS is a bit better, but still not what I'd use for everyday work.
After trying a whole load of options, Lubuntu 14.04 was the best but there wasn’t anything which provided a modern web experience.
I briefly thought of trying to make a Raspberry Pi casemod with it before realising how hard it would be - seemed a shame to get rid of a perfectly good screen and enclosure just because the processor is no longer supported.
I know, it's heresy--you should only need open-source software, and as long as you can get a compiler running, open source software should work. However, the vast majority of users simply won't care, not if they have to give up their favorite software. "I can't use Photoshop? But I need it!"
If you want an open processor to take off, it'll need some kind of x86 compatibility.
It's not like there are no options at all.
That having been said, I need to look into QEMU.
If you don't need x86 compatibility, PPC is fine, and for open source stuff it's probably reasonably well supported in major distros.
But pretending you can have anywhere close to reasonable performance of x86 binaries on even the newest PPC chips is hopeful at best and realistically a fanciful notion.
When you run an application on QEMU on Linux, only the application code is simulated (by just-in-time compiling every basic block when it is first executed, then always just executing that compiled native code). System calls go to the Linux kernel on the host system, which runs as usual. Hardware is not virtualized. In contrast, Virtual PC (if I understand correctly) simulates the hardware of an entire PC, including graphics hardware, and runs all of Windows on top of that. That's a lot more expensive in terms of processing power.
That said, sure, you will probably lose some performance with QEMU. If the simulated code uses lots of fancy vector instructions that are not provided by the host hardware, you'll even lose a lot.
(Which in my view kinda sucks, I prefer native apps to web apps for many purposes, but the market has spoken.)
I don't get it, are they designing a 'retro' style notebook like the old iBook? Or have the designers been sleeping under a rock for the pas 10 years?
edit: imac->ibook
If these incredibly useful ports are not present, they cannot be used. If they are present, they can be used, but you don't have to do so.
This isn't a single laptop design: this is a prototype for building lots of different machines. If you want a NUC-style tiny brick computer, you can build one from this. If you want a RAID server, you can build a small one directly or a medium-sized one by adding a PCIe controller. It's never going to appeal to an ultrabook buyer, since it would be really difficult to engineer all the other components for ultra light weight, but you could replace the vast majority of non-gaming cheap laptops with this.
Oh, and integrated touchpads are usually connected with PS/2, SMbus or I2C.
Yeah, my laptops mostly show up as PS2 devices.
So long as usb is present, I support having other ports.
OK, then it makes sense. The website isn't clear about that.
Lots of devices do this - even high end network gear that have a "USB" port externally wire it to a USB to Serial converter internally, where Serial is the actual protocol in use.
The other way to go is an embedded controller over i2C or similar, but there's not really a standard way to do that in the POWER ecosystem.