Comment by aeorgnoieang | Hacker News Reader

Comment by aeorgnoieang | Hacker News Reader

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This is a really aggravating comment. It's content-less marketing drivel. You didn't 'build Manuscript'. You just changed the name of an existing hosted issue/ticket management service.

And you've made some cosmetic changes to the client-side code that uses the 'FogBugz engine' (back-end code).

And now you're spouting really insipid bullshit about "Big Bugs". Please excuse my intense skepticism about that being anything other than nothing.

There's a few things I still like about FogBugz versus its 'competitors' – creating a 'case' (issue/ticket) from an email, being able to create hierarchical trees of cases, and being able to search cases. But everything else has been stale for a long time.

You don't even have real integrated version control! Kiln is about as basic of a web wrapper around Git as possible. Or maybe the code reviews are okay? I don't know. I've never used them nor ever heard or read of anyone else doing so either. Why's Kiln off on its own? Hosting a Git repo isn't exactly trivial if you're offering it for free, but you killed the free plan a while ago and I don't think anywhere near as many people as are using GitHub have ever even known of Kiln.

The propose UX improvements are also very very un-inspiring. To whom is FogBugz – I mean Manuscript – going to be marketed? Because it certainly doesn't seem to be programmers.

Sorry to hear I've aggravated you! There's more to it than cosmetic changes. Relevant to your comment is the new integration experience, which leverages Glitch. This enables you to connect up your other tools easily, so you can use the best tool for the job, like GitHub for integrated version control. As well as other tools like Slack, Trello and Google Docs.

I'm sorry I'm being so aggravating too. We're hurt most by those to which we're closest! I've been using FogBugz for almost a decade now, and it's been overall really positive. But I'm sad that it hasn't really kept up.

You mentioned using other tools – "like GitHub for integrated version control". I can't understand why anyone would use GitHub and FogBugz/Manuscript. GitHub already does pretty much everything FogBugz does, plus it's like 'embedded version control' instead of just 'integrated'.

Maybe Anil will push thru some fucking Markdown support tho before I'm finished migrating to GitLab. You guys (the extended Fog Creek family anyways) are probably half the reason why Markdown has been so widespread [i.e. Stack Overflow]. FogBugz has been marketed forever as being just for making software! How can you have relegated all of your users to using 'rich text' for so many years? Why?!

(Also, would you please add a 'description' to the cases so everyone can see, at the top of the case, a checklist [written in Markdown!] with everything that needs to be completed before the case can be closed? And how 'bout some case description templates too why'll you're at it?)

Thanks for the feedback, I'll pass those suggestions on.

One big reason why people use us with a GitHub integration is that GitHub is almost entirely used by developers only, and yet creating software requires input from people across roles and departments. Manuscript with GitHub integration means you can collaborate across your whole organization, and involve Design, Support, Marketing and other teams, while developers still get to use the version control system they want.

I'd like Markdown support, too. We'll put it on the list. :)

I can tell you've got real passion and enthusiasm for what we're doing, otherwise the critiques wouldn't be as detailed and pointed. We want to get this right, so if you're game, drop me a line at anil@fogcreek.com and we'll find some time to talk through what you expect and what'll keep you excited about where we're headed with Manuscript.

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