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Comment by marak830 | Hacker News Reader

I can't give you a link to official figures, but from living there 6 years I can answer a few questions.

Suicide: by train isn't uncommon, but if they have to delay one line, there are similar lines people can use to route around the area (usually, and to great discomfort).

People on the track: I have only seen this once, aside from workers and they know the schedules and have watchers to make sure the lines are clear.

Morons not moving: pretty hard Todo that with the sheer mass of bodies moving out ;) also there is a system everyone adopts, on the outside everyone lines up in two lines outside the carriage doors, and let's the train empty, before attempting to get in.

Its quite amazing how well it works.

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>there is a system everyone adopts, on the outside everyone lines up in two lines outside the carriage doors, and let's the train empty, before attempting to get in.

I would make a joke but it is interesting how having a culture that values the whole rather than the individual influences how they use public transportation.

In NJ/NYC, I stand away from the door and people actually shove in front of me and through people getting off.

It really did surprise me that I can only recall one or two cases of people not actually lining up properly.

I think that, more than anything else, showed to me the huge difference between the Japanese culture compared to Australian.

Not sure where you are, but people line up here. For buses, people will often form one orderly line, because there is only one entry. On trams and trains, people will stand next to the doors and move to the side to let people off. I have seen this in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide.

Sydneysider here. It's highly inconsistent. I've been to Tokyo a few times and people _always_ allow others to alight first. Here in Australia it's more often than not a free for all. I have even had people push me back into a carriage when I and others are clearly trying to get off.

I've mentioned this to a friend a few times, the biggest differences between the Japanese and Australian public transport systems is that we (Au) take ours for granted. We don't care about our trains and buses until they are not there (strikes), or late (traffic/human delays), and then we complain rather than attempt to fix the problem.

If our everyday work life depended on our transport system, and I mean really depended on it, we'd see a dramatic shift between what we have now and what we would have.

I live in a metro center 90 mins outside of Sydney CBD - I absolutely despise the train network it is expensive and perennially delayed. At least here locally trains occasionally won't even show up no announcement or anything just no train at the station. Due to funding cuts our local station isn't staffed anymore so you can't ask anyone whats going on just a bunch of people left on platform scratching their heads when train doesn't arrive nothing you can do except wait for next train.

I fly to Melbourne fairly regularly. Any trip that touches airport line adds about $15 to the fare because some genius decided it was a good idea to privatize the airport line. I spend almost a third of my airfare cost just on travelling to airport.

I'm only 10 minutes away from Brisbane CBD, and my closest bus/train stations have no staff. I remember 15 years ago the train station did having staff there for ticketing, but not anymore.

I used to see full length empty trains going out to the coast during peak hour as a "limited stop" service, yet regular commuters would have to pack onto 3 car all stop services. That there caused me to stop taking the train. The bus system also has it's faults but is generally ok. Worst I've seen are the ghost buses that just don't turn up but are still on the status boards.

Airport train fares were a exploited for a while until they did a crackdown on the passes. It'd cost you $10~ to go from the CBD to the airport, but the passes would only cost you $5. You could tap on to get on the train, and never tap off (which incurred a $5 fee, but you didn't care) then bin the pass afterwards because you weren't going to pay that fee.

It's these sorts of things are why our transport system will never progress, we are always looking to screw over something that we don't hold value in. If we needed it, we'd pay for it in fear of not having it.

The best advice I got about using the subway in Japan was this: if you're not sure where to queue up, just stand somewhere and people will queue behind you. Sure enough it works like magic.

I think those people stand out, and most people follow that rule (barring rush hour traffic)

Also NYC has a lot of people coming out from all over the world to visit or to immigrate - it takes a bit to learn the train culture.

Singapore is also a very popular tourist destination but even as a tourist it's very easy to find and follow the rules. For ex. the place were trains stop are marked and request to queue there are painted on the floor.

I don't know how much of it is culture exactly -- I find at Toronto's Bloor-Yonge station that people often do this -- they line up in two columns by the doors to let folks off before entering. I won't say it's done perfectly, but regular commuters seem to know it, here. It makes sense from a self-interest perspective: the faster you clear a path and allow folks off, the faster you can get on before the doors start closing. All bets are off at most other stations in Toronto though, they're often not busy enough for it to become an expected behaviour.

Although it's been years since I've been overseas, I recall seeing similar behavior in Australia (no idea if it's changed; I doubt it). People waiting to board the train would let the people on the train disembark before attempting to board themselves. I'd imagine anyone forcing their way on would be met with an unwelcome reception.

As you said, it's just common sense.

We do, not 100% of the time, but damn close (usually non-locals and jerks that will push in past those coming off).

As for Japan, I was amazed when taking the trams down in the south where, from what I remember, you got on via the back doors (taking a ticket, which was optional some times depending on the trip), then you would slowly move forward to the front to pay on departure via a coin collector near the driver. Change machines were also on the trams. The ride and transaction was seamless as everyone always had correct change, the collection of money took little to no time (we're talking nobody really stopped, drop money in, keep walking) and because everyone was entering and leaving the assigned doors, everything just worked.

I don't understand why in the us they don't paint instructions on the floor like they do in Singapore.

IIRC the trains in NY are not all the same, so even if they did stop at exactly the same spot, then the markings would be off for some trains.

The signalling sounds like it is ancient in the NY system, and they don't seem to have the budget or will to fix it.

They do in San Francisco (at some of the downtown Muni platforms, and at all of the BART platforms). Suggestions will only go so far. These sorts of things work well in Singapore and Japan because there's far more deference to authority.

In Switzerland, people also stand in two lines next to the doors, so people can get out first. Everyone follows that, the ones who don't are mostly young people who aren't used to riding trains. They get starred down pretty quickly (social inhabitor in Switzerland #1) and learn to adapt.

It is culture, but also a whole system of making it simple.

There are markers to show where the doors will stop, and the train will actually stop there. So people can line in advance in prediction of where the train stops.

The markers are far enough from the border so people are nudged to stay within safe distance.

Staff is dispatched on the platforms at rush hour to deal with people wondrop their stuff, need assistance, lost their way or take dangerous behaviors.

France railways started some similar ideas (like having staff on the platforms at rush hour) with various level of success, but they don’t seem to be ready to invest enough to go all the way. Basically I think other countries’ railways just don’t care enough.

It's not too much related to the "culture of the whole" - it works amazingly well in Vienna too, it's considered really rude to not queue up at the sides of the door in the subway/tram, or to stand left on the escalator - and mostly people really respect it.

I was impressed by the Japanese stations that had markings on the platform to show exactly where the doors will be for a particular train. People would queue on these markings and the trains would glide to a halt exactly in the right space.

I believe they also vary the door positions for different routes, so you can have people queuing for two separate trains on the same platform without any confusion or disruption.

Not only that, in some places there is even a second and third departure waiting queue like in Ginza Line in Shibuya.

People do wait there on rush hour not for the next train, but for two trains later (same train). The justification is that it is the beginning of the line, and if you wait 3-5 min longer you'll be able to sit for the whole trip.

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