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Comment by creaghpatr | Hacker News Reader

>As a young teenager, Carrillo automatically became a U.S. citizen when his mother went through the naturalization process. As an adult, he had two serious run-ins with law enforcement: a 2007 conviction for carrying a concealed weapon and another in 2011 for sending sexually explicit material to a minor, according to law enforcement records reviewed by The Times.

>In the second case, Carrillo was sentenced to 240 days in jail and three years’ probation, the records show.

In theory ICE could check this out, but sanctuary city policy is to not cooperate with ICE, so my guess is they did not have immediate access to this information.

Given that this was an outlier case, I'm guessing the city would withhold the verification because most times it would show illegal status. Of course, it would make sense if all the enforcement agencies had synchronized data, but that seems like a pipe dream for an organization like the US gov.

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>In theory ICE could check this out, but sanctuary city policy is to not cooperate with ICE, so my guess is they did not have immediate access to this information.

I don't think this has anything to do with sanctuary cities. I am convinced they had easy access to his info:

"As a young teenager, Carrillo automatically became a U.S. citizen when his mother went through the naturalization process."

That means USCIS had everything -- his SSN, fingerprints, photos, (even though from his teenage years). Could have been trivial for ICE to check, if they wanted to.

My speculation was dead wrong, in fact LA functions more or less like a regular city regarding the LAPD/ICE relationship

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/27/los-angeles-mayor-flirts...

>LAPD officers have historically shared intelligence with ICE through the CalGang database system, and ICE agents are in the county jails on a near-daily basis.

In theory ICE could check this out, but sanctuary city policy is to not cooperate with ICE, so my guess is they did not have immediate access to this information.

Also I think Hilary's emails and Benghazi obviously played a factor here. And Obamacare. And gay marriage. And liberals.

You forgot Uranium One, that one is clearly the most important at all.

> After being allowed to make a phone call to an uncle, Carrillo said his son brought a passport and a certificate of citizenship the government issued Carrillo but that ICE officers refused to review the documents.

Seems the problem lies with ICE officers and not the city.

>ICE officers refused to review the documents.

Curious why did they refused to review the documents. Just malice, racism ect?

Probably because they're Immigration and Customs Enforcement - not Immigration and Customs Judges. They enforce the orders that they're given. The proper forum for presenting that evidence would be in front of a judge. Or do police officers get to tear up arrest warrants because a family member gave them a video tape showing the person being arrested is innocent?

inb4 'just following orders' response: We're not talking about murdering people here, so here's a ladder so you can get off your high horse and we can engage on the same level.

>...but he was told he had to file his complaint in writing to an ICE officer who was assigned to his case. He said he did so, but received no response.

>The refusal by ICE officials to listen to Carrillo's claims of citizenship appeared to violate an agency policy that requires officers to thoroughly and quickly investigate such claims. If there is any doubt whether someone is a citizen, the policy instructs officers not to arrest the person until the confusion is resolved.

> until the confusion is resolved.

How is the confusion resolved? ICE officers are equipped to verify the documents?

The damage of an illegal immigrant being out a couple hours longer is minimal. The damage of a citizen being falsely arrested is ideally the worst possible thing we should do. In the case of blatant malice like this, that should be treated exactly like the kidnapping that it is.

Yea that would be ideal but I am trying to verify GP's assertion that " problem lies with ICE officers" or if they are just doing what they are asked to do.

They can certainly contact USCIS, which holds the official records for immigration and naturalization. Both USCIS and ICE are part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

They can also contact the U.S. Department of State, which issues passports, to verify the passport.

> ICE officers are equipped to verify the documents?

If Immigration and Customs Enforcement is not equipped (internally or by communication with USCIS) to confirm the validity of purported immigration documents, why bother having the agency at all? I mean is there anything more essential to their purported mission?

Start by putting a passport authentication device in the offices. Secondly if they are too incompetent to do this, establish a contact number with the relevant agency to verify it quickly. Honestly if they can verify your passport in the airport, how hard is it for ICE to do this?

> The proper forum for presenting that evidence would be in front of a judge.

Ok that makes sense. However given that they are ICE not just a regular police force wouldn't stuff like showing proof of citizens also be enough to amend the order.

> family member gave them a video tape showing the person being arrested is innocent

A video tape is not the same as a passport. A passport is good enough for the DHS to let people into the country or not, nobody has to go in front of a judge there. I don't see why ICE employees couldn't also perform the same check.

From the article:

"The refusal by ICE officials to listen to Carrillo’s claims of citizenship appeared to violate an agency policy that requires officers to thoroughly and quickly investigate such claims"

Of course they are not going to release a suspect immediately, but their responsability was to investigate those claims and bring their supperior's attention to them. They were not "following orders", they were going against them.

ICE is not a normal police force where warrants are issued by judges, they can pick someone up with no specific warrant, they can detain anyone they wish, for as long as they wish, with no due process, provided they believe they are not a citizen.

They probably believed that it wasn't their jobs to check the paperwork, that a judge would sort it out.

That's so far from the truth, though. Despite their having orders to get Carrillo, it was their job to read the paperwork that was provided. The alternative is police who are "just following orders". History shows the consequences of that to be armies of evil.

> sanctuary city policy is to not cooperate with ICE

I don't think that's true, unless you have an example. Usually sanctuary cities have policies like "don't hold illegal immigrants while you wait for ICE agents unless they've broken another law", "don't automatically notify ICE when an illegal immigrant is released from jail", etc.

It doesn't mean "don't return their phone calls and never share information".

> In theory ICE could check this out, but sanctuary city policy is to not cooperate with ICE, so my guess is they did not have immediate access to this information.

Cities aren't the source of authority for naturalization information, USCIS is. Sanctuary cities have no effect on ICEs ability to verify information whose authoritative source is another office that, like ICE, is part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

That's not how criminal records or sanctuary cities work.

I don't think you understand what a "sanctuary city" is.

Cities are not responsible for naturalization.

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