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Comment by StavrosK | Hacker News Reader

A few years ago, I decided I didn't want to work 40-hour weeks any more, and asked my employer to switch to 32 (four-day weeks), with a 20% pay cut. Satisfaction-wise, it's been fantastic, as four days isn't long enough that you'll get tired by the week, and three free days is amazing to recharge.

Unfortunately, I've found that it's rather career-limiting, as people don't care as much if a lowly developer works four-day weeks, but for more senior positions nobody will accept that. I have a choice between fulfilling life and fulfilling career, and I think I'm leaning towards the former.

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I did the same. Asked my employer to work 4-day weeks to lower the pressure after the stressful period during which we released our first product.

Life satisfaction I get from that extra day off if quite huge, as I almost get twice as much free time compared to the time I actually work (3/4 vs 2/5). That time allowed me to get better at playing music and rock climbing and I now have time to read and learn more.

Productivity wise, I probably do a little bit less than I did while I worked full-time. But I'm more productive for every hour I work, which is not really a bad deal for my employer. We have several offices, and most people I've been working with remotely didn't notice that I was working part-time for months.

I also got a 20% pay cut, which reduced my after tax income by about 15% (living in Belgium). Lifestyle hasn't changed, but it definitively has an impact on how much money I can save every month. I'm considering buying an house, and working part-time will definitively delay this by a couple of years.

I agree with you that working part-time could seem career-limiting, but my opinion is that it's more like an inner feeling than something my supervisors think of me (it's a little bit awkward to work part-time when most of your colleges work full-time). In the end, the average gap in productivity between an engineer that works part-time compared to the same one that works full-time is way less than between two given engineers.

> I agree with you that working part-time could seem career-limiting, but my opinion is that it's more like an inner feeling than something my supervisors think of me (it's a little bit awkward to work part-time when most of your colleges work full-time).

That's exactly it. I don't think there are any misgivings as to my output, just what having a senior person working 4-day weeks would project. Maybe they're afraid that other people would start choosing that option? I'm not sure.

Then again, I've mostly been getting those comments from other companies, so I think they're just scared of the 4-day thing, and maybe they wouldn't actually be against it after they saw how the relationship works. Some people have told me "I'm worried that someone working four days will be less committed than someone working five", to which my reply is "then, by induction, you'd want everybody working 24/7".

People are generaly apprehensive of new things, and four-day workweeks are no exception.

In general I recommend bringing up shorter workweek after you have a job offer. At that point they've reached point of "oh this person is quite good" and they've committed in their head. Still will be lots of companies that will say no, of course, so it's a numbers game, best done while still employed (ideally at a company that already gave you a shorter workweek).

And, yes, some people translate commitment to "we want you to work 24/7". You probably don't want to work for those people even if you're looking for regular full time job.

I have successfully worked relatively senior positions (principal software engineer at a couple of startups) working less than full time. So I don't think that's necessarily the case, especially if you can build the skills to be very productive.

It's definitely harder, since less companies will hire you. But on the flip side, since you've already negotiated shorter workweek it's easier to get that at other companies, since you have proof you work well with less hours.

I talk about both the skills and the negotiating tactics involved in my book (https://codewithoutrules.com/saneworkweek/).

How long had you been working there before you asked? And was there any push back? I'm sure this will vary from company to company, but I am curious to hear your case.

I had been working there for two years or so. It's a funny story, actually. I had gotten fired due to a manager who was... less than stellar, and when I was in talks to be rehired, I requested four-day weeks and they agreed. There was no pushback, but I think my new manager, the one who pushed for me to be rehired, went to bat for me on this.

It's been working out great ever since, and, as far as I can tell, for both sides.

A more important factor is the country/legislation. In Germany you're entitled by law to work part time (after 6 months of employment)[, unless there are important reasons against this, which an employer would need to prove in court].

I'm not sure how that worked out well for you, unless you also negotiated a 20% reduced workload.

Currently, I have way more work than I can possibly do in 40 hours, meaning I'm already dropping things on the floor if I only work 40. Working even fewer hours would exacerbate this problem.

Sounds like a management problem, it seems to me that your company needs to hire someone to help you.

Might be management problem, as someone else said; some managers are just bad. Might be learning how to negotiate will help. But might also be a mindset and skills problem: often you can do same amount of work with less time if you approach it correctly.

For example, you can figure out which features are really necessary, and work on those first. Then when you inevitably run out of time you can say "I did A B and C, but did we really need X Y Z?" "Well... I guess not."

More here: https://codewithoutrules.com/2016/08/25/the-01x-programmer/

Might also be a can-do attitude. If you can't say no you'll always end up with "too much work".

That's what I mean by negotiating. "Sure I can do that" when you actually can't isn't a good move for you, nor for your employer.

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