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Comment by cdavid | Hacker News Reader

Are you basing this on facts ? Cost of living is indeed high (much lower than London though), but taxes are not so much higher than in many other countries in West Europe. You will need a French account manager from time to time so that you benefit from various tax cuts, especially in the first few years.

I am curious about the banking issue as well. Never heard of it being that difficult. Working visa are indeed becoming increasingly difficult, but I am afraid this is a trend that is not restricted to France.

I think the issues in Paris are much closer to the toxic environment mentioned by the OP. I know several people who founded their own company just to avoid the usual IT job which consists in being a semi-slave for one of the numerous consulting companies.

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Taxes are very hight to afford for a startup, I don't have numbers right there but look at what cost an employee in France ... and taking advantages of government support for young companies requires a skill in french bureaucracy that not all entrepreneurs have + it's often harder to get it when you're not a french entrepreneur. Banking was just an example about bureaucracy in general. You'll spend way more time in France to setup simple things, need way more papers, seriously it's a pain ! I can't compare with lot of countries but by experience it's far more easier in Berlin or in SF.

And about the issue about being a semi-slave : I worked for many startups in Paris and I never felt that. Of course if you take the consulting way you can't really compare with startups. And yes an internationally competitive salary is required and it costs an arm for the employer.

Looks like too much FUD for me. "Look at what cost an employee in France" - what's next, "you cannot fire anyone ever" ?

Bring some facts in here, leave the conclusions to us please. As for getting the "government support for young companies", isn't negotiating with Sand Road VCs a skill of its own as well ? What about scoring DOD contracts ? Both require immersion in a culture with specific goals, myths and traps.

high

As someone who runs an incubator in Paris but lives in Silicon Valley, let me add my 2cents:
look at what cost an employee in France
An engineer in France is way cheaper than an engineer in Silicon Valley. Taxes on salary are indeed higher, but the base salary is so much lower that in the end, France is cheaper. To give you an idea, a basic salary in Silicon Valley is $100K, the equivalent in France would be below 50K€. Those cost the employer about $120K and 75K€ respectively, so you can see which is cheaper.
On top of that, France has a pretty good tax incentive for R&D engineers. You can almost get all your money back as the employer, it's frankly crazy (it's called CIR). But nice for startups.
The main issue in France is the complexity of navigating all the government aid. It's a patchwork of measures that don't fit well with one another...

The complexity of the bureaucracy is indeed a bummer from what I could see when I worked in small companies. One company I worked for lost a lot of money just by not getting in time some forms for some tax/"charges" reduction.
Concerning the cost of an employee: one thing to keep in mind is that once you paid your employee, he already got his basic retirement and health plan in place, contrary to the US and pretty much everywhere else outside western europe. As an example, I earn more here in Japan than in Paris, the cost of living in Japan is certainly cheaper than in Paris, and taxes are low but in the end once I factor out the cost of health insurance, retirement, and maybe soon sparing money for children's education, France is really not so bad.
I actually know several friends who came back to France after earning "so much money" in the US, especially once they had kids.

> hight
It's high, not hight (I'm French too).

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