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Comment by aphextron | Hacker News Reader

I'll be facing this soon as well, at least they've got RV's. After getting back from my third open house for the week, with double digit atendees, I think the bay area just isn't for me. A perfect credit score and a job making double the median wage is not enough to land a 1 bedroom apartment apparently. I'll probably end up sleeping on someones couch for a few months to finish my work contract, and get out of this hellscape for somewhere people can actually live.

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I grew up in California. It's a beautiful place. But I fail to understand the point of living or doing business there in 2017. High state taxes, high crime rates (that will only get higher as more people are driven to homelessness), impossible housing market, etc. I now live in Nevada. I can easily drive or fly to California for vacation if I want, housing is relatively reasonable, and there are no state taxes.

If you are doing consulting that can be done remotely, live in Nevada and fly to California when you need. Flights are cheap and plentiful. If you're running or starting a web-based business, then you can run that from pretty much anywhere, and you'd be insane to do it in California with such a punitive tax system. There's just no point to living in California these days.

> high crime rates (that will only get higher as more people are driven to homelessness), impossible housing market, etc. I now live in Nevada

What on earth are you talking about? You live in the state that is in the top 5 for violent crime rates. California doesn't even break the top 15.

This is why statistics never tell the full story. In California, ten people could be murdered outside your home every night versus one per week in Wyoming and Wyoming would still have the worse crime-rate.

Statistically sound, factually accurate, but still Wyoming would feel safer.

You also need to factor in the type of crime. If the only people getting shot are gang members then the crime-rate won't feel as close to home.

You have to look at crime rates in the specific area where you live, because they are all over the place and sometimes vary from street to street. Certainly you wouldn’t say that all California neighborhoods are equal in this regard. The area I live in (in Nevada) is upscale and has a violent crime rate more than 50% below the national average.

If you think about it that way, Chicago and Orlando are probably OK if you choose the right area.

Some of us can't work remote, some people will pay extra for good weather, some people like the ocean a lot. Everyone is different.

> There's just no point to living in California these days.

There's an ocean, fantastic and constantly improving dining scene, beautiful people, the best national parks in the country, a gorgeous and diverse landscape, great weather that allows you to go skiing and surfing in the same day, arguably the best/tastiest crops and accompanying farmers markets in the nation, cultural attractions such as a top 5 symphony orchestra, iconic music venues, fully legalized marijuana, high quality illegal drugs from being right on the border, population diversity, high quality meetup groups (specifically thinking of BioCurious), and, most importantly, a high concentration of engineering talent.

That's not to mention the perks of living in a world class city. I get to demo things like Microsoft's HoloLens for free at a meetup at their Santa Monica campus, go to Hacker Nights at Riot Studios, attend a free presentation by Robert Sapolsky, watch SpaceX rocket launches and be a part of a very dense, helpful, and talented developer and entrepreneurial community.

The total compensation for the average engineer in LA is around $150k. I do this and work some side gigs. Maybe I can't afford private jets or a yacht, but I have very little material desires.

There is no amount of money that could convince me to spend the bulk of my time in the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Iowa, Arkansas, or any other place in the US that offers tax advantages outside of Florida. (No offense to anyone who lives there, it's just not for me).

I see and agree with your contention if you find most or all of the above meaningless. I did the whole big fish, small pond thing before in Michigan and didn't like it, but I see how others can appreciate the differences. It's downright arrogant to call anyone who chooses to live in California insane just because you're over it.

Have you considered Washington state as a tax-advantaged state? No state or capital gains income tax. Portland and Seattle are both accessible.

Move outside the city. I lived in Pacifica. Pretty much anything along BART is easy to get into the city. I parked at Colma where fortunately the dead don't drive :-)

Pacifica was awesome because you're just a hill from the hustle and bustle but it felt like a detached town. So many nice people there. Hwy 1 is annoying at rush hour (or most hours) but it was a really nice community.

Same. Moved out to Oakland, I can easily get studios and 1Bdrm apt's (they cannot fill my condo). Takes me 20mins to get into work on BART.

I don't like the term "Fake News" because journalism is alive and strong today, but the media certainly has its narratives and loves picking and choosing stories. The reality is just a lot more boring.

I’m confused - what trouble are you having? I moved here 5 months ago and had no problem getting an apartment.

Same here, moved to the East Bay 18 months ago, have a great 1bdrm apartment.

How much do you two make vs the cost of your rent?

I suspect the person you're replying to may not have anywhere near the means you have.

Op said he makes double the median income. That is more than enough to find a place to rent.

Since you asked our rent (1brdm in-law in Piedmont) is about 22% of our combined take home net pay. However the OP says he makes double the median income, so he should be fine. I've seen nice (but small) 1bdrm apartments in good neighborhoods in Oakland for under 2k/month, you can find cheaper if you are willing to live in less desirable areas.

You make $160k and cannot get a one bedroom apartment in SF? I don't think the prices are that high.

I was going to say. The rental market is way better now than 2 years ago. Many more "for rent" signs now and rents seemed to have come down a little.

Maybe the OP is only looking at the super low end of the market (will only rent a sub-$2000 per month 1-bed). No doubt those would be hard to lock down.

Where are there open houses for 1 bedroom apartments?

Note: While I am in the bay area, I am not in the SF-specific market.

I've seen open houses for 1bdrms in Oakland, not all apartments but some of them would have them. From my experience they tented to be smaller and cheaper units that would rent easily.

I don't think you're facing what they're facing. Sounds like you make quite a bit more than the people profiled in this article.

His anecdote is more powerful because of his income. You'd expect someone with low income to have trouble finding housing... that's a problem, but the situation makes sense. When someone struggles to find housing while making multiples of middle income, something is deeply fucked. That says a lot about how bad it is for everyone else.

>You'd expect someone with low income to have trouble finding housing... that's a problem, but the situation makes sense. When someone struggles to find housing while making multiples of middle income, something is deeply fucked. That says a lot about how bad it is for everyone else.

I... disagree that upper middle income immigrants having a hard time says anything definitive about the situation of the local poor, at least in the bay area. There are lots of laws and rules made to benefit the poor long term residents at the expense of those upper-middle income newer immigrants.

My least-employed little brother works in a hardware store in San Francisco. He's got a beautiful rent-controlled apartment with an ocean view. Sure I have a lot more freedom than he does, in that I could get into a apartment around here, but... paying market rate for his apartment would be difficult even on my income. I mean, I could do it, but it would necessitate lifestyle changes.

California mostly charges you property tax based on what you paid originally for your house, which means that of the lower income people I know around here? more of them own or live with friends/family who own than rent.

I mean, I'm not saying that the poor don't have it hard... I am just pointing out that we have laws that help people who have been here for a long time, laws that seem to make things easier for the lower income, and laws that actively make life difficult for the new arrivals.

Just in case someone reads the above comment the wrong way: Rent control in San Francisco is not tied to a tenants income but rather the age of the building.

It’s entirely possible for someone who works in a wealthy person job (tech) to have a rent controlled apartment.

Same with prop 13, you can make 2million/yr and pay $5000 in property tax on your (current market rate) $3M house.

His anecdote is more powerful because of his income

Or more likely, his anecdote is made-up because of his income. Alternatively, his income is made-up because of his anecdote.

It's not hard to find accommodation in SF (let alone the East Bay) with a $150k/yr income. Something is being exaggerated.

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