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Finally, if you can get by with a single-threaded, refcounted, deterministic program -- go ahead. Have fun. The rest of us, here in the real world, have applications more complicated than a high-school midterm to work on.

At a previous employer I worked on a single-threaded, refcounted program that served a website with over a million dynamic pages/hour and which cleared over $30 million profit each year. OK, we parallelized - we ran our service with prefork, and a standard reverse proxy configuration, and split the load across something like 10 machines. (2 of which were able to take the load by themselves.) Nor is this close to the largest such website that I know of.

Don't knock the "high-school midterm" projects.

Another point worths mentioning is the recurring, bogus argument about GC, non-determinism and comparison with malloc. If you think malloc is any more deterministic than gc, you are kidding yourself: think about what happens when malloc gives you a block that contains pages which will be pulled from disk when you access them. When you want to program something which has low, guaranteed latency, you locks your pages in memory, and you never calls malloc in that thread.

> you should write your code such that a destructor closing a resource is considered a programming error.

Not disposing your resources properly is an error. Your language should make it as easy as possible to make this impossible (or at least highly unnatural).

> The only exceptions are C++ RAII wrapper classes, which are designed to have magical destructors.

They are the (only?) correct form of resource management: automatically clean it up when you're done with it.

> C#'s using(), Python's with statement, Haskell's with* functions -- they're all designed to solve the problem that a generic garbage collector doesn't and shouldn't, which is "I need precise control over the lifetime of this resource allocation". Java doesn't have such a mechanism, but then, Java doesn't have much of anything for a supposedly high-level language.

using() is the same as try{}finally{}, which Java does have. The problem with these is that you can forget them.

The problem with garbage collection is that it seems to always come with the baked-in assumption that memory is the only resource that really matters, so handling of other resources is a bolted-on afterthought. GC impeded correctness, not because of anything fundamental, but because it is seen to substitute for proper resource management.

The "With" style construct is the correct way to handle this. Embedding resources like file-descriptors in objects is a Bad Idea.

Python has added the "with" construct so it can move away from ref-counted implementations, because the amortized time for refcounting is slower, and even if you don't care about that, there is still the circular reference problem.

[edit] I should make it clear I think tying an FDs lifetime to that of an object is a Bad Idea; I'm not suggesting a blanket ban on ever having a FD stored in an object.

Correct resource management is to clean it up when everyone is done with it. As one book put it, liveness of an object is a global, not local, property. If a reference to an object escapes the function which created it, it rapidly becomes infeasible to statically prove it is ever safe to destroy the object, and the penalty for almost getting it right is undefined behavior. That's why memory deserves to be handled specially. Leaving files and connections unclosed can cause errors, but they can't make correct code go unpredictably insane.

using isn't quite the same as try/finally. using is a construct explicitly for freeing resources. With a try/finally construct it's up to the user to fill in the finally block correctly.

I don't see any sign you're telling the author anything he doesn't already know. At least, it looks to me like his complaint is precisely that using and with are awkward solutions, because they break object encapsulation in a particularly ugly way.

Or are you trying to argue that objects should never contain file descriptors or sockets?

The author is arguing that reference counting is superiour to garbage collection, because it provides deterministic resource deallocation.

I say this is wrong -- object lifetime and resource deallocation should be entirely separate. He should use with and using(), not depend on a quirk of a particular implementation of the language.

If an object's lifetime ends while it still holds an open handle to a resource, this should be considered a programmer error.

Java was an innovative language when it came out. But future proofing byte-code put a very tight lid on innovation (resulting in generics hampered by type erasure, for example) and the language has very much stagnated at the same time many other languages have innovated like crazy.

As long as Oracle doesn't decide to scrap the set of promises that Sun had made for Java 7, that release will resolve many complaints and bring the language forward a bit, at least. It's not going to make Java the most powerful language around by any means, but it will help, and I think we'll start to see much tighter Java code coming out, at least from the people that know what they're doing.

For one thing, it will finally add automatic resource management blocks, which by my understanding do exactly what is being complained about here - they let objects deterministically clean up after themselves without relying on finalization.

What I'm still skeptical about is whether closures will actually make it in or not...it's much harder to add them on after the fact (while still maintaining backwards compatibility) than it is to design a language around them from the start, and I'm not really convinced that Oracle will care enough to see the efforts through to the end; at the very least, I don't see it as likely that it will happen without a serious schedule slip.

Java's chief weakness has been it's lack of first class functions. If closures don't make it in to Java 1.7 then it's game over, it'll be sealed as the COBOL of our times.

It sounds like you haven't looked at Java since at least 4 years ago. finally{} may be less convenient than using(), but does the job of controlling lifetimes just fine. And java.util.concurrent provides all the sophisticated synchronization concepts you could ask for.

finally { } doesn't really do the job. You have to write it all the damn time! Bad developers keep making mistakes writing try { } finally { } blocks. Some have absurd religions about where and how things should be initialized. In C#, IEnumerator<T> : IDisposable, which means you can iterate over resources using foreach loops. try { } finally { } blocks have a higher mental cost of -- they push more things out of short-term memory. finally { } does the job of being evaluated when exiting the block just fine, but that's all.

" Sure, it's hard if you're manually (un)locking mutexes like a damn caveman -- but every major high-level language available today (except, again, Java) provides better abstractions"

... java.util.concurrent?

I, on the other hand, tend to agree with the author. It would be nice to have an alternative to the JVM / .NET hammer. Note that I am not saying that those things are useless, just that I am tired of them used as the one true way to develop "business" apps.

Additionally, I have had to do a lot of "batch" type work in my career, such as "extract, transform, load" kind of work, and having to deal with GC sucks. It might be cheap to create and destroy temp objects, but holding a map/hash/dictionary in memory gets expensive, since the GC is always stomping around, and paging memory in and out of cache outside of the region doing the "real work".

I want options, not religion. http://roboprogs.com/devel/2009.07.html -- OK, I happen to agree with this guy's post.