Finding Family Ties to Indian Slavery in New Mexico
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I find it interesting that in the US, mixed race people tend to become the least 'privileged' race, whereas in Mexico, at least in this one case this woman identifies with the more privileged group
Even when seen as 'outsiders', meaning, as part of a different ethnic group, it's still not uncommon under European colonial rule that mixed white/black people have more privilege than black people. That is, what you say is not at odds with what magic_beans said.
Spanish rule in the Americas had race-based caste system. This included New Mexico. Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Spain :
> Eventually a caste system was created to describe the various mixes and to assign them a different social level. ... The upper echelons of government were staffed by Spaniards born in Spain (peninsulares), the middle and lower levels of government and other higher paying jobs were held by Criollos (Criollos were Spaniards born in the Americas, or—as permitted by the casta system—Spaniards with some Amerindian or even other ancestry.[139]) The best lands were owned by Peninsulares and Criollos, with Native communities for the most part relegated to marginal lands. Mestizos and Mulattos held artisanal positions and unskilled laborers were either more mixed people, such as Zambos, recently freed slaves or Natives who had left their communities and settled in areas with large Hispanic populations.
Haiti inherited the French racial caste system. Quoting now from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti :
> Haitian mulattoes became the nation's social elite and racially privileged. Numerous leaders throughout Haiti's history have been mulattoes. Comprising 5% of the nation's population, mulattoes have retained their preeminence, evident in the political, economic, social and cultural hierarchy in Haiti.
In the South African apartheid system, "coloured" people (with mixed heritage) had higher status than "African" people (meaning black). While not explicit at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid you can infer from "Blacks were provided with services greatly inferior to those of whites, and, to a lesser extent, to those of Indian and coloured people." that black people were less privileged than mixed race people.
No, I'm saying that, in practice a person if mixed White/Black background will often be seen and treated as something-distinct-from-White (and disfavored for that reason) by Whites and something-distinct-from-Black (and, again, disfavored for that reason) by Blacks.
> Even when seen as 'outsiders', meaning, as part of a different ethnic group, it's still not uncommon under European colonial rule that mixed white/black people have more privilege than black people.
Yes, in systems with de jure racism, often mixed race categories are in an intermediate legal position between legally pure members of the dominant race and legally pure members of the disfavored race.
This actually is often part of why even the disadvantaged race, treats mixed race individuals, like advantaged-race individuals, as disfavored outsiders culturally, even long after that kind of legal system is gone.
> That is, what you say is not at odds with what magic_beans said
It was a refinement, not a disagreement.
As I understand your use of 'outsider', a person with a white background is an outsider to blacks, and will be disfavored for that reason by blacks, and a person with a black background will be an outsider to whites and disfavored for that reason.
In colonial countries the whites had the power, so even if what you say is true, it's a relatively small component to the power structure of the culture.
What usually happens is that mixed race people form their own group, historically identified with terms like "mulatto" or "brown" or "coloured". They are not outsiders to other members of that group, and as a group have a privilege level between those of whites and of blacks.
Your construction didn't seem to consider that a new racial group might form.
The "tragic mulatto" concept, as I understand it, is based on the premise that there are only whites or blacks, that whites and blacks will both disfavor mixed race people, and that mixed race people will not form their own racial group with in-group privileges.
This is why I believed a caution was in order.
I'm not making a commentary on the power structure of national level society, I'm making a commentary on the way mixed race people are often treated by various subcultures within that society.
> Your construction didn't seem to consider that a new racial group might form.
I think you have mistaken the word “often” in my post for the phrase “without exception”. Trust me, had I meant the latter, I would not have said the former.
It was quite complicated, with different names for the different caste systems. Essentially though, the more white you were, the more privilege you had.
Before the US Civil War, it was somewhat the same in the US. Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule :
> free people of mixed race (free people of color) were considered legally white even if individuals had up to one-eighth or one-quarter African ancestry (depending on the state).[5] Many mixed-race people were absorbed into the majority culture based simply on appearance, associations and carrying out community responsibilities. These and community acceptance were the more important factors if a person's racial status were questioned, not his or her documented ancestry.
After the US Civil War, the powerful whites in the US South worked to undermine the rights of free black people. Among other things, many states passed "one drop rule" laws, where any African or Native American ancestry (except descent from Pocahontas) meant that one was black.
Quoting again from that Wikipedia page, "Among the colonial slave societies, the United States was nearly unique in developing the one-drop rule ... The same racial culture shock has come to hundreds of thousands of dark-skinned immigrants to the United States from Brazil, Colombia, Panama, and other Latin American nations. Although many are not considered black in their homelands, they have often been considered black in US society."
My self-image is much more based in my cultural roots than my ethnic ones. Genetically, I'm 25% Jewish, but it's not a part of my identity on any significant level and doesn't impact my day-to-day life at all, except when I'm walking around during Sukkot.
More here: http://www.medicaldaily.com/dna-ancestry-tests-are-meaningle...
I'm from Mexico and here a lot of people "hate" on Spaniards because "they conquered us" that exclamation sounds pretty absurd when it comes from a dude with lactose tolerance and a big beard (both gifts from Europe). Population from northern states will have around 70% European DNA and 30% Native American, Southern states usually go the other way around 30% European 70% Native American, some researchers would say not even Native Americans of today are 100% pure natives, Mexico experienced a mix of cultures and blood since the XVI century. And yes it involved war, slavery and a lot of other atrocities. But the truth is we're not either the conquerors nor the conquered ones or you could say we're both, we're the result of that mix of cultures, trying to feel victimized for something that provoked one of your ancestors to other of your ancestors doesn't make sense.
Part of learning about the past also involves learning about how past issues have carried us to where we are today and how sometimes the issues of the past still emerge in unexpected ways.
The bigger issue is people wanting to continue being oblivious about how the past affects the present because it’s uncomfortable.
And to blame something which happened hundreds of years ago, is to ensure this problem never gets resolved, because making poor choices is easy when you don't suffer the blame.
What exactly happened hundreds of years ago that you’re referring to?
It's similar to how conservative Christians have fetishized Jews and Israel, which is partly a result of conservatives latching onto this victimhood trend--victimhood by proxy. I used to work for a pro-Israel non-profit foreign policy think tank. Much of the staff was Jewish, and a significant portion (though by no means the majority) of operating funds came from Christian Evangelical donors.
My manager once recounted a trip to a Christian Evangelical conference. One of the booths had a Shofar, a ram's horn traditionally used in Jewish religious services. People were lining up to blow it. The whole scene in full context came across to him as very... let's say crass and awkward and perhaps borderline racist. He wasn't personally offended and wouldn't have considered it "wrong", per se, but I think it suffices as an example of how fetishization of status and identity can result in recapitulating the same sins that ostensibly drew attention, interest, and sympathy.
I think the previous poster's point was that because our culture fetishizes victimhood, our culture incentivizes people to identify with victimized groups who really have no understanding of either the historical or, especially, modern persecution of the group, and especially the most worse off in the group (no group is homogenous). They co-opt the identity and then purport to opine on social and political issues from a privileged position, often to the detriment of the most worse off individuals in the group. Eventually self-appointed supporters and defenders begin to do the same thing.
There's a fine line between drawing attention to legitimate social issues by popularizing group identity, and the broader culture wresting the autonomy and self-determination of a group. Native Americans, perhaps more than any other minority group in this country, should be aware of this phenomenon, as every red-blooded American with a 5th grade education purports to understand the mistreatment of Native American tribes, and yet our laws to this day often continue to get worse!
It's great that many, say, victims of sexual assault and sexual harassment can now find _empowerment_ in open association with other similarly harmed individuals. But make no mistake, the broader culture (of both men and women) has already begun co-opting this particular trend. It's always two steps forward, one step back.
I thought the Christian Evangelical support of Jews and Israel was more from other reasons.
I was brought up in a strongly Christian family. When I think of a shofar, the first thing that comes to mind is the Battle of Jericho. I can totally see why someone would want to blow in a shofar because of its Biblical associations.
Some Evangelical Christians support Israel because of Christian Zionism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism . Quoting from there:
> Christian believers are instructed by Scripture to acknowledge the Hebraic roots of their faith and to actively assist and participate in the plan of God for the Ingathering of the Jewish People and the Restoration of the nation of Israel in our day.
The end goal is that this is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Christ and the end of the world.
Where does a fetishized victimhood of Jews and Israel fit in?
Where the victimhood comes in is how Evangelical Christian politicians in particular justify extreme, pro-Israeli foreign policies by reference to the history of anti-Semitism and in particular the Holocaust. These people claim to know what anti-Semitism means and how it should inform politics, even though they're neither Jewish nor ever had to personally experience anti-Semitism. They objective Israelis and Jews the way Muslim leaders in Arab countries objectify Jewish and Christian minorities, by reference to their special status as Abrahamic religions and a God given mandate to protect them. And within the larger narrative of victimization in American culture, they've positioned themselves as defenders of a victimized group--much like they've positioned themselves as victims in the recent Freedom of Religion debates--and used that position to justify policies with are ultimately self-serving. (So far the policies are largely welcomed in Israel, but I'm sure most Israelis know they're playing with fire by courting Evangelical groups.)
More to the point, the staff who worked at that think tank were well aware of the objectification and deeper prejudices that underlay the financial and political support given to them by certain groups. It's a complex and subtle dimension to racism that most people don't understand, especially if they've not experienced it first hand. That Evangelical Christians are oblivious to this dimension speaks to how pernicious it can be, as it shows how people believing themselves innocent, sympathetic, and righteous can unknowingly harbor, perpetuate, and exacerbate social prejudice.
What I disagree with is that your example, as originally described, shows evidence of a victimization fetish-by-proxy towards Jews.
Most of what you wrote just now also fits into a Christian Zionism interpretation.
The 'special status' of Jews in the US is of course partially to do with the Holocaust and Zionism, as well as a response to the disgraceful way the US dealt with Jews who tried to escape by immigrating to the US.
But I think we should also interpret it as an attempt to unify disparate branches of Christian faith under the banner of so-called "shared Judeo-Christian values". It's a way to brush doctrinaire differences under the table.
When people claim that "Merry Christmas" is part of our Judeo-Christian values then I can't help but think they are including "Judeo" as a fig leaf.
Given that you know the context, and since what you described is a friend-of-a-friend account, where you don't recall the specifics, I think you can understand why I don't agree with the conclusion you drew from the recollection you gave, even if I can agree with your overall thesis.
Christian Zionists seem perfectly happy to support Israel even to the detriment of the native Christians it displaces, but at least they can brush them off as "Mary worshippers", it's a lot harder to make that case with a straight face if you're Catholic.
But all of history is nation narratives! In Mexico the US stole Texas, in the US Texas wanted independence from Mexico to join the union.
I’m not sure if there can be anything resembling objective history, but I think Jodorowsky’s assertion that seeking identity in our nationality is misguided. We are certainly products of our culture, but confusing our culture with our country will only cause more atrocities.
It was an acceptable mistake at the time of Columbus, now not so much..
Indians are people from India.
I read the headline and imagined an immigrant from India who is exploited by an employer or visa sponsor.