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Comment by toomuchtodo | Hacker News Reader

Just like there are no “buyer protections” with checks or handing someone cash.

It’s an expectations issue, not a technology issue. Can’t get your money back with Western Union or TransferWise either if you’re not making intelligent decisions.

Edit: Do not send payments to a stranger unless it’s through a payment system that offers you protection. That is not the role of person to person money transfers.

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> It’s an expectations issue, not a technology issue.

Nobody said it was a technology issue.

I believe my point is Zelle can’t fix users doing stupid things.

Yes, they can. They can make the correct use case clear on their website and in their UI. A warning could be added when sending payment that there is no fraud protection.

I blame both the banks and Zelle for implementing this poorly.

Why wouldn't "add in fraud protection since that's many people's reasonable default assumption" be the most desirable thing for them to do?

Why do we let people get away with such crappy ideas, and then just blame users or implementers (UI designers, in this case)?

Because fraud protection costs money, and it's useful to have an electronic payments medium that doesn't have it, and therefore avoids those costs.

So if Paypal can give it to me for free, per the article, the answer just seems to be "we should tell everybody as loudly that we can that this is a shit product."

PayPal takes 2.9% and change off the top. Banks do not charge for person to person transfers. There is no skim for expensive fraud prevention to come out of.

PayPal doesn't take that off the top for person-to-person. They haven't in... five years? I don't know. It's been a while. You used to have to do some sort of "it's a gift" thing, but I haven't seen that in a long time.

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/article/What-are-the-fees...

> There are no fees within the U.S. to send money to family and friends when you use only your PayPal balance or bank account, or a combination of your PayPal balance and bank account.

Paypal doesn't provide fraud protection for free friends-and-family payments.

There is scam where sellers will request select friends-and-family payments both to avoid the fee but also to avoid the protections.

I think that's why they call it "friends and family"; to keep the expectations reasonable.

Ah, thanks, that's not obvious from the original article. Or from Paypal, either, to me. Very obnoxious, that.

It's hard to hand someone cash or a check over the internet. This is a little more anonymous, which makes it an easier vector for fraud.

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