Comment by DoreenMichele | Hacker News Reader

Comment by DoreenMichele | Hacker News Reader

I hate seeing these extremist bans. I was homeless in California when the bag ban went into effect. Following hot on the heels of the bag ban a hepatitis epidemic broke out in Southern California. I believe these two things are related.

I have a permanently compromised immune system. Reusing bags is problematic for me. However, I use grocery bags as trash bags. I almost never buy trash bags. This has basically been true my entire adult life. I bet a lot of people reusing grocery bags are buying trash bags separately.

I am very concerned that when we outright ban disposable bags and utensils we create a health risk that may go unrecognized.

Using metal straws and trying to clean them between uses strikes me as very problematic. That strikes me as a tremendous opportunity to foster antibiotic resistant infections.

I really wish the world would stop and wonder why such products are so popular instead of decrying them as clearly lazy and evil and no-good-nik. Because I fear that a lot of people will mysteriously die of illness and wondering if there is a connection to the ban of disposable items will mark you as a loony.

First, are you seriously suggesting that they were popular for the reasons that you personally prefer them?

Second, even if it did cause an outbreak what does that tell us about how endemic hepatitis was already? Is that not an issue already that it was all around us such that simply changing the habits of our shopping bags could cause this problem? It sounds like there is a deeper issue that needs to be addressed.

I'm sympathetic to your particular issues and I hope that there is an acceptable middleground for people with your situation but these seem like some serious edge cases to me. That is not to say that I expect you to have to suffer because you are an "edge case", but I don't see why we can't essentially ban something that is a problem overall while still finding a way to protect your health needs.

First, are you seriously suggesting

This is not good faith engagement.

Second, even if it did cause an outbreak

I didn't say it caused an outbreak. I believe there are likely multiple contributing factors. But the epidemic disproportionately impacts the homeless population. For homeless people, paying 10 cents a bag is a serious hardship. Bags go from being a free courtesy item that enhances their life to yet another financial burden when money is already a serious problem. There are multiple factors that then make bags a potential vector for disease for the homeless.

The bag ban in California is aimed at injecting a facade of sustainability into the upper class lives of people who have no plans to give up their cars and big houses. It puts a big burden on people who lack either a car or a home or both. It is the people walking or taking public transit who most need a bag to carry their stuff. But, no, the US has no plans to improve public transit.

The only thing I am suggesting is that the discussion should be more nuanced. I see no reason why such a suggestion ought to be dismissed as unreasonable.

I too, use the ubiquitous plastic bags as trash bags, but I get about 50, for each I use as trash. They are poorly recycled, and I am constantly picking them form my trees in the country. Its a plauge, and needs to stop.

Your point about being extreme is well taken. I think a deposit system is ideal personally.

I bet a lot of people reusing grocery bags are buying trash bags separately.

That was my experience. The free plastic grocery bags were awesome small garbage bags or bags for storage. They always got used.

Now that I don't get a free plastic grocery bag, I just buy garbage bags now.

When my ex was in Germany as a soldier, there were strict environmental laws they were supposed to comply with. Their vehicle threw a track and he wanted to walk it back on, but this would have involved backing over a tree, which was forbidden. So he was overruled.

The rescue vehicle was, of course, larger than their track vehicle. You could track its progress coming to them by listening to the trees get knocked over in its path.

Some of the worst fires in US history occurred because of increased vigilance keeping evil humans from doing things like gathering firewood from national forests because we need to protect our forests. The build up of dry underbrush caused by this pro environmental policy led to catastrophic, horrifying fires.

A lot of environmental initiatives work like that. And I get sick of watching it go down like that.

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