Android beats iOS in smartphone loyalty, study finds | Hacker News Reader

Android beats iOS in smartphone loyalty, study finds

techcrunch.com

47 pointsmiddle168 comments

If you have the money to buy a new iPhone and are considering a new smartphone, your range of options is effectively any smartphone device in the market.

If you're buying an Android device, you're statistically likely trying to save money and therefore a new iPhone isn't a realistic option. Thus, the range of options you consider tends to be Android-only unless your smartphone budget has changed significantly since the previous time you bought a phone.

These points are worth considering when looking at the chart presented in the link.

New iPhones start at $349.

I think it's more about which ecosystem has the bigger lock in. I used to be locked into the Apple ecosystem and it was somewhat painful to extricate myself. What's interesting about Google's ecosystem is that I was locked into it even when I had an iPhone. And I can't imagine trying to extricate myself from Google, it would be even more painful. Now that I'm on Android the Google locked-in ecosystem is a bit smoother with things like Google Photos.

$350 gets you a 6 years old phone design, an iPhone 5 with better internals. $700 gets you a 4 years old phone design, an iPhone 6 with better internals. $1000 gets you a brand new iPhone.

I got a Sony XZ1 Compact for €500 and it works the same or better than an iPhone.

What's wrong with the "6 year old design"? All phones since the original iPhone are basically a slab of glass with improved intervals and different size screens.

I have a larger phone but the larger screen doesn't actually help me as far as usability. I use my phone for typing email and messages because it's better for one hand use. But I'm quick to grab my iPad given a choice.

So why not get the smaller phone?

Out of curiosity what year design is the Sony XZ1 Compact?

It was released in 2017, although perhaps your comment is alluding to the (small) iterative design updates that Sony gives its phones.

I wanted an XZ1 Compact due to USB Type-C and the plastic back, but settled for a Z5 Compact due to LineageOS support.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Xperia_XZ1_Compact

I've used mostly Android phones in the past I was trying to decide whether to get the Z5 Compact or finally try Apple with the iPhone SE. After nearly a year with my first iPhone I'm ready to switch back. How has your experience been with that phone?

Well, you can get an iPhone 6S for ~€500 (actually 5% more). That's not 4y old, it was officially released less than two years prior to the XZ1.

Not that I'd recommend getting one. iPhones have never been the best bang for buck product, especially not the substantially older but barely cheaper older models. But you're exaggerating a bit here.

This is a silly comment, to distinguish between the "design" (by which I assume you mean what it looks like) and the "internals" (how it works). In any practical sense, a phone with new internals is a new phone.

And people say that Apple fans are too sensitive to how things look...

What is the iPhone 8, but an iPhone original with better internals? The design differences are negligible at best. The iPhone X is the first deviation from the basic design.

The point is the age of the internals, not the design deviations.

5 year old phones don't run todays software very well.

Parent I was responding to was complaining about iPhones being old designs with new internals.

The SE isn't 5 years old, it's the same internals as (and newer than) the 6S.

There is no phone you can buy from Apple today that has 5 year old internals.

the SE runs great. have you ever used one?

Yes, and new Android phones start as low as $30-$50.

Example: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EYT1URO/

>If you have the money to buy a new iPhone and are considering a new smartphone, your range of options is effectively any smartphone device in the market.

Not necessarily. 'having money' isn't the same as willing to over-pay. In the same vein 'saving money' could mean willing to pay an amount apropos to value of the goods.

I think they meant they have money that they are willing to pay for a new iphone. What is over-pay to you might be just-the-right-price for somebody else with different values.

Flagship Android phones are at about $1,000.

Android users might just like the ecosystem better. There are rational reasons for that. Just like some people prefer Apple's ecosystem.

> Flagship Android phones are at about $1,000.

I wonder how the loyalty levels vary by phone price?

I have a few friends with low phone budgets and in the past they've purchased low-cost Androids and been very dissatisfied with them. Their last purchase, a few months ago, was for iPhone 6's.

Apple may only have high priced phones in the latest generation but iPhone's that are 4 generations back are still being sold (new) as the budget option.

other things to consider is the fact that for a run of the mill Android the insurance cost is significantly less and the deductible in some cases $100 compared to the $250 for an iPhone. Those who realized that the first time around would reconsider buying an Android as their next phone.

Apple is not innovating as they used to in their phone and so Android is quickly closing the gap, which makes them financially speaking more viable option.

For the run of the mill Android phone, why buy insurance at all? My teenage son is always breaking phones. We haven't allowed him to get a phone (with his allowance) that costs more than $100.

I'm very impressed with the $100 Moto G.

> If you're buying an Android device, you're statistically likely trying to save money and therefore a new iPhone isn't a realistic option.

Disagree strongly. Yes, plenty of Android phones come in at lower price-points so they will be more appealing to people looking to save money when purchasing a smartphone. But calling this is "statistically likely" is a gross exaggeration of the situation.

How is it a gross exaggeration?

The average selling price of an Android phone is $227. The ASP of an iPhone is $692.

https://www.androidauthority.com/price-gap-samsung-apple-sma...

The fact is if your budget for a phone is $300. You're going to buy an Android.

EDIT:

The link above compares Apple and Samsung. The gap is even wider when you take all manufacturers into account. $691 - $215.

http://fortune.com/2016/02/15/apple-android-asps/

I think by "statistically likely" they just mean "more than 50%," or, in other words, that lower-price-point Android phones outsell top-shelf ones. Given that upmarket they compete with the iPhone but downmarket they pretty much own the entire product space, this doesn't seem particularly unrealistic to me.

Like someone pointed out, there is significant data around this.

I am not exaggerating in the slightest.

You're hiding behind bad statistics to basically ignore all high end android phones, Galaxy devices etc. You're pretending the entire high end android market is "negligible" by using such shoddy statistics to essentially claim "Android = Budget". We all know what you're doing when you make cheap, short comments which obscure context to push narrative.

This is a very similar situation to people who use averages because medians don't tell the narrative they want.

You have a narrative, and you have damned statistics, so reality doesn't really get in your way.

As mentioned already, I dont see whats hard to understand.

High end android are similar to high end Iphone. Low end android are similar to...nothing in the iphone world.

So people with money who like Android buy Android People with money who like iPhones buy iPhones People with low money who like Android buy Android People with low money who like iPhone...buy Android

(there's the used market that make things a bit more complicated, but I still think the data would work out)

I'm still going to enjoy my Galaxy S9+ in a week.

The statistics are fine. The point is that you’d expect Android -> iPhone switches to be rarer than iPhone to Android switches. Nearly everyone who can afford an iPhone who wants an Android phone can afford to switch. But many people who have an Android phone but want an iPhone cannot afford to switch. (Indeed, if you look at average selling prices, the average Android user could not afford to switch to even the lowest end iPhone, even if they wanted to).

Thank you, this is exactly what I wanted people to notice.

Perhaps your version is stated more clearly than mine. Though I thought it was pretty clear when I initially wrote my version.

I'm not making a value judgement about the devices or them being "budget". You're imposing that on my comment because for some reason you feel attacked by my statements.

I am simply pointing out the realities of the market and what the data says. Emerging markets are incredibly important in these numbers and emerging markets overwhelmingly choose Android for obvious reasons. Android simply has more market penetration in price-sensitive areas.

Look at Samsung's device ASP, it's around $300. Apple's is closer to $700. If you cross reference these ASP numbers with market penetration, the narrative will become clear. If Samsung's Galaxy line had significant impact, you'd see it reflected in the ASP numbers.

If you want to have an actual measured conversation, feel free to introduce new facts or data that might help us both gain a better understanding of the mobile landscape. Until then, I don't think this conversation is entirely productive if you choose to throw away all the data I pointed out and attack me personally.

Sure. Let's add to the discussion using your data, hope you won't feel offended or attacked since we're only discussing data

"iPhone owners are willing to spend more than double what Android owners are for what is essentially same thing"

"iPhone owners demonstrably have less concept of frugality/value -- is it advertising, branding or something else which overwhelms their judgement?"

I wonder why this is. Is it the marketing which makes iPhone owners spend double? Is it the branding, the social status of buying a $1000 status object? Or do iPhone users really believe that their phone calls and web browsers are actually worth 3X the price?

I'll look past your unwarranted snark - even with everything you said, my point is simple and nothing you say contradicts it: if you can only afford a phone for $300 or you only want to spend $300 on a phone, you are going to pick Android because iOS isn't even an option for you.

Whether you think people who buy Apple products have a poor concept of value or not is frankly irrelevant to the discussion.

I don't think it's irrelevant to a conversation where I explicitly said "what else can we learn from your data", but I understand why my looking for other conclusions from your data made you uncomfortable and made you use a weird "irrelevance" attack to discard the observations instead of actually responding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi2tjMLVpdQ

I find it interesting that many of the folks who own everything choose Android (unless they need iMessage).

>if you can only afford a phone for $300 or you only want to spend $300 on a phone, you are going to pick Android because iOS isn't even an option for you.

Absolutely, you can get near flagship level Android devices for $250 (I just picked up a Moto X4 for $250 myself) while such an Apple device would be more than twice as much (and be unpopular enough that Apple's average sale is much closer to full price).

I think this data makes a very strong case for iPhone users having a very poor sense of value, regardless of whether or not you think this conclusion from your data is "relevant" to discussion of your data or not.

The only point I made is about optionality at a price point and how that can be one factor that's important to keep in mind when looking at the data presented in the article. That's literally all I pointed out.

You can either agree with me, or disagree with me and offer evidence to disprove the value of what I said. I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish by bringing taste or sense of value into this. If iPhone users have a poor sense of value then so be it, it still neither helps strengthen nor helps disprove my original point...

I'm sorry but I don't get your angle. I get the sense that you just want some friends to argue with but I'm sorry - I can't be that person for you. You'll have to find someone else. I think it's best for both of us to move on from this conversation. It's been a pleasure, cheers.

> Emerging markets are incredibly important in these numbers and emerging markets overwhelmingly choose Android for obvious reasons. Android simply has more market penetration in price-sensitive areas.

The study covers only USA.It is not an emerging market and it is one of the few that market share of iOS and Android are not very different

I believe the ASPs being stated in the various comments in this thread are the global numbers being reported by IDC.

Yeah, but the loyalty report only covers USA

If the ASP of an Android phone is $227, how does that not imply my Android users are buying cheap phones?

We likely have a baserate problem here. Most phones are android, so if someone just picked at random, they’d usually pick android. This doesn’t always mean ‘android loyalty’. It could as easily mean ‘price loyalty’ or ‘carrier promotion loyalty’. If someone picks iOS, with its smaller market share and number of phones, it is more likely brand loyalty to Apple/iOS.

So the two loyalty numbers are not exactly comparable

Question: have you read the article? Loyalty rate is defined as the number of users who switched from one platform to the other in the last year over the number of user on the departing platform. They even say that the absolute number looks different because of the bigger market share of Android.

Now, your argument is that someone who chose to stay with a device with smaller CB is more loyal, but what the article is saying is that out of 100 Android user, around 90 bought a new Android when replacing the phone, while only 86 Apple user bought a new iPhone.

I don't see how you dispute this fact as an evidence that Android users are more loyal. Even an argument on network advantage doesn't work because Android phones are very compatible with Apple ones (not the other way around) and the Apple ecosystem is still pretty big...

Let me put it this way. You walk into a Verizon store and see 15 cell phones. 2-3 of them are iOS. The other 12-13 are android. Buying an iOS device is likely to mean that your an Apple fan. Buying an android might mean that you like android. Or it might mean you like the particular phone, or you might be price conscious. All things that are not “android loyalty”.

One problem is that iOS is essentially the same thing as iPhone in terms of purchasing decisions. This is not true for android. Ergo, it’s not safe to equate the phone and OS in the android world but it mostly is in the iOS world.

Okay, but you're essentially telling someone whose job it is to produce this data that they're doing it wrong. Maybe they have already thought about this. Its far more likely that techcrunch is misrepresenting the data with their headline. :)

I’m a scientist. I do that all the time. :)

And no, I did not check the underlying article. I think my point stands regardless though. iOS/iPhone and Android/a bunch of different phones are not interpretable in the same way. There’s no real way to “account” for this

Today, Android has a 91 percent loyalty rate, compared with 86 percent for iOS, measured as the percentage of U.S. customers who stayed with their operating system when they upgraded their phone in 2017.

According to Statistica[1] Android has 53.6% of the U.S smartphone marketshare and iOS has 45%. So I would say those loyalty rate numbers are perfectly comparable.

[1]https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held...

The base rate issue here is not about market share, it’s about the number of phone choices. If I pick a phone at random, there’s a very high percentage chance it will be android, because there are dozens of phones by different makers.

There are what like 3-5 actively sold iPhone models? So is someone who trades in their Pixel for a Samsung “loyal to android” or did they just happen to like a phone that happened to be an android?

In the iPhone world the two go together, so brand loyalty = phone loyalty = OS loyalty

I disagree with your unsubstantiated claim that the loyalty rate is attributed to the number of Android phone choices. People that use Android stay with the OS because it's what they're used to and prefer.

Also, there are 8 actively sold iPhone models.

Price loyalty for Android is not as true today as it was 3 years ago. Apple now sells a variety of phones ranging from $350 to $1000+ USD. In developed countries, this certainly allows consumers to cross shop between Android and iOS.

They sell one phone for $350 - the iPhone SE. While I'm thinking about "upgrading" to the SE - I'm really starting to like the idea of a real small phone and my iPad - most people don't want a phone that size.

But $350 is still higher than the average price of an Android phone - $227

https://www.androidauthority.com/price-gap-samsung-apple-sma...

Does anybody other than people who actually work in the marketing department of a phone manufacturer care? Is anybody still basing their identity around the brand of smartphone they use in 2018? If so, that's sad. The iPhone vs. Android battles were stupid in 2010 they're beyond pathetic in 2018. Pick the phone you like and move on with your life.

Can’t be said enough. There are good reasons to choose either platform - Apple devices tend to be a little slicker and have better software, but there is a much wider variety of Android devices and the experience is more customisable.

It’s still useful to know what way the market is moving and customers’ perception of devices to help us make informed choices about things like device support. But it’s not a competition for anybody except Apple and Android phone manufacturers; pick the platform that suits your needs and ecosystem best, and it’ll be fine.

In the US, iMessage is a cultural sticking point. That's one thing that contributes to an "us" vs "them" mentality.

Teens do.

They tend to gravitate towards platform-specific apps, and when all the cool kids have iPhones, guess what they're going to insist on?

Choosing IOS would be incompatible with my identity as an free software / open source supporter. Android is bad enough already.

I used Android phones for years due to this, I've been using GNU/Linux exclusively since 1994 and the idea that Android was open was compelling to me. I also believe Richard Stallman is an actual saint. However, Google's appalling data collection practices and coercive dark patterns[0] and the fact that the important parts of an Android phone are not at all open disillusioned me on the virtue of Android. That and bad experiences[1] with my latest MotoG persuaded me to switch. The final straw was that it started dieing spontaneously under load. Too bad they did not think to slow it down when the battery aged.

IOS may be against my free software religion, but bacon is delicious! I really like my iPhone and I hated the last Android phone although the one previous was not as bad.

Of course once you abandon your principles you are on the slippery path with no anchor to prevent you from getting an iPad, Airpods, the watch, and probably Homepod too. However, I'm still on GNU/Linux for desktop/laptop and don't see that changing.

[0] Example: I used to use the Android phone as a pedometer with my treadmill desk. After an update it refused to do this anymore without location services enabled so that it could help me record my routes. I'm pretty sure a) I know where my desk has been, b) I don't want Google knowing everywhere I go.

[1] Example, on the freeway going 75 surrounded by feral Trumpers in giant pickup trucks, ask phone "Navigate to Fremont Costco". Do I get voice navigation? or a map?. No, it puts up a dialog box about "the destination location will be closing in 35 minutes, do you still want to do this?". I can almost picture the product meeting where they dreamed up this feature. But consider - the phone knows: It's only 10 minutes away, I'm headed toward it, I'm obviously driving. Why would it think a little box full of tiny text is remotely helpful or appropriate? IOS has some flaws but is never this obtuse.

I can understand your points. It's easier for me because I'm not into phones at all; I just use a $50 phone from a bargain bin. I'd prefer something I could install an open source OS on, even if it was incompatible with everything.

Edit: although since I'm not into phones, the preference doesn't extend to spending money on it.

Follow up point, Having decided that for now I can trust Apple to respect my privacy I've managed to pretty much un-Google myself. I don't use any of their apps, switched to FireFox and DuckDuckGo on desktops and wiped and donated my Chromebooks. It was actually easier than I expected.

People will exhibit tribal behavior over anything. Of course they base their identity around the brand of smartphone they use. It would be surprising if they didn’t. It’s not sad. It’s just human nature.

Brand loyalty to Android doesn't even help the "marketing department of the phone company". Even people who are loyal to Android are seldomly loyal to a manufacturer.

Android tends to be more flexible with a few things. At least I see a lot of users using custom fonts and crazy widgets, that would never work out with the iOS sandbox concept. iOS users that i know often have an iPhone because it just works pretty well. They would use iMessage and iCloud and everything is fully integrated.

I am currently on iOS, but I have deep concerns how Apple is controlling the Apps on the App Store and in general is pushing its agenda to everyone’s phone just like that. When my 6s breaks I will very likely switch back to Android just for the reason of being able to root my device, sideload applications and control traffic via hosts file. Also, Wireshark and other fun stuff.

I would like to see the data for the top end phones. Comparing the iPhone to the Galaxy, Note, and Pixel, who has the brand loyalty?

Many people pick Android because that is what their cell phone provider has for cheap.

Between the ecosystems and physical handset variety (Freetel Mushashi vs. Galaxy Note 8), I'm not surprised that the data would show that Android now has higher loyalty than iOS.

Why? I would hazard that it would be the Google ecosystem; Gmail, Google Maps, Google Drive, YouTube, etc are just about irreplaceable without compromises that most non-HN users are not generally willing to make.

Edit: Well, guess who forgot something as elementary as Google ecosystem being on Apple devices too? Me.

It's a strange feeling being embarrassed based on some text on the internet.

But the entire Google ecosystem is on iOS too.

One reason I keep everything on Google is because it lets me effortlessly switch between Android and iOS.

(And it used to be that iOS apps were way behind/inferior to Android ones, but that isn't usually the case anymore.)

And one reason why I use Android phones is I know that the platform owner will let me use whatever apps I wish, unlike iOS.

I can and do use all of those services on my iOS devices.

The headline makes this seem like a recent development, but according to the CIRP data, this has been the case since 2013.

The article even makes note of this, further down.

For Apple, iOS is a differentiator. For everyone else making handsets, the software is not a differentiator.

The numbers that don’t lie are in smart phone profits. If you have a reasonable amount of loyalty, you will also be able to charge a premium. Yet only Apple and maybe Google’s pixel are in that arena.

Money talks!

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