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Comment by Waterluvian | Hacker News Reader

I have ADHD. Drugs like ritalin never "fixed" me. They basically allowed me an exchange: give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something. I won't write an essay here but trust me that the two versions of me were day and night and both had significant benefits and challenges. I really struggled growing up.

By the time I got to college I learned to use the drugs as a switch I could flip when I needed the focused version of me.

Not that ADHD and ASD can be compared, but I wonder if maybe ASD treatments could offer that option. Ie. Not to "fix" you but to give you a tool to be wielded under your own control.

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ADHD checking in - I function with my ADHD and it's part of who I am. All I need is a little support and understanding due to my lacking organisational abilities and consistency.

That said, I remember someone who's younger brother was severely autistic. He'd shit himself as a means of communication, he was barely able to talk - he'd never be able to integrate in any meaningful way. His parents lives were spent 24/7 caring for this kid. They loved him but it destroyed their family. If a drug could bring someone like that to the level they can be mildly autistic and function and provide a far higher quality of life to those and those who would otherwise have to support them, why not at least make it an option?

As long as we're just fixing impairments, not trying to "fix" people.

> give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something

Perhaps this autism treating drug is like an anti-Ritalin: give up the intense focus, and in exchange get charisma and sociability.

If I could undo whatever 8 years of concerta did to my brain (and start growing like a kid again where I left off), I would give my life earnings for that.

Could you elaborate?

Concerta/ritalin/etc are sit down and shut up drugs. It makes you feel neurotic and trapped inside your own head so you're not as physically disruptive as a healthy kid should be. It leads to paranoia and anxiety that you only grow accustomed to and can't grow out of. The lack of appetite stunts development. Just look for real world stories of people who've taken these drugs and paid more attention to what happened to themselves than "yeah I was less disruptive."

Do you feel the same way about Adderall? I've been on Ritalin for months and haven't felt any negative effects.

> Not that ADHD and ASD can be compared

My understanding is that ASD and ADHD are often found together. I don't have enough familiarity with either to know where one begins and the other starts.

Thanks for sharing your perspective, as the parent of a child just diagnosed with both conditions it's useful!

They are often confused for each other, but I tend to think of ADHD as “ASD lite”. They have some of the same issues with focus and attention (esp with hyperfocus) but kids with ASD tend to show a lot more sensitivity to sensory perception. Loud noises, bright lights or uncomfortable textures become emotional outbursts. Hyperfocus also tends to be more of a constant state with ASD and can lead to emotional distress. Kids with ADHD get mad when they don’t get their way; kids with ASD get mad when they’re uncomfortable and don’t know how to express that or deal with it.

It all depends on the severity of the ASD though as to how constant it is.

I do almost feel a diagnosis of both is redundant though.

Very interesting. I never thought of that before. I certainly have no traits I'd consider on the autism spectrum. I just couldn't focus. Sit me quietly in 5th grade with a book and I'd read a page and have absorbed none of it because my brain wandered. I'd ask to go to the washroom just to get out of my desk and take the exciting trip to the washroom. Teachers eventually started asking if I had problems because I'd ask to go to the washroom 7 or 8 times a day.

What I've been told is that people with ASD have a lot of the same issues with their executive functioning, and in many cases they can be diagnosed with both ADHD and ASD. Furthermore, it's quite common for siblings of those with ASD to suffer from ADD/OCD/etc.

However, one crucial difference is that the ADHD type of 'hyperfocus' is often in practice not as useful as it seems/feels, whereas the ASD kind of obsessive focus can be very productive and useful.

My personal experience, comparing myself to friends who have (severe) ADHD, is that a crucial difference is that I find it easier to see the bigger picture, assuming I'm not stressed (which is difficult to achieve), and can sort of channel my 'hyperfocus' in the right direction. These friends often struggle with this, and can easily spend hours or days doing something that in hindsight wasn't the right thing.

(interestingly, I feel that this 'problem' also has the upside in that they are often more artistic than I am, perhaps because a lot of what they do is not limited by a clear 'goal')

I actually have had the opposite experience with hyperfocus — if I get sidetracked into a subject I personally find very interesting but know others don’t, I have a harder time letting go of it. I know what the right thing to do is; my brain just won’t let go of the thing it’s focused on and I get emotionally agitated when I force myself to switch.

For me at least, the core component of my ASD is the complicated link between sensory input and my emotional state. The focus and attention problems are more that I have to really concentrate to understand the meaning of everything going on around me, and that gets exhausting. I get fatigued of being “on”, so my attention lapses.

How sporadically did you use ritalin? I think there's a risk of developing dopamine sensitization with infrequent use.

I'd say 3 or 4 times a week when I had classes. Then down to 0 times a week during co-op (working for an employer for 4 months).

Basically I selected to have it any time I had a major project to do or studying to do. It was absolutely glorious because I could go to classes, struggle through those a bit, get home, be social and have friends, then at about 9pm have some concerta and work on a project until 5am.

And maybe some of this sounds unhealthy but gosh did it ever work. I was a D student in high school and I managed to actually get into college, get two degrees, some significant awards, and a dream job after graduation. Without the opportunity to take Concerta when I wanted to, I all but guarantee I never would have gone to college.

Side question for my research: Have you tried hiking for more than 10 consecutive days, possibly without carrying tech with you?

As someone with ASD and the plan to do just that, I like where I think you might be going with this...

Yes, when I was in college.

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