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Comment by tboyd47 | Hacker News Reader

It's absolutely true that you should be nice to people, but let me also issue a similar warning to newcomers not to ask questions in a way that inspires rage.

Programming is, in a very abstract sense, a dirty job. We get paid well, have great benefits, perks, and mobility, but we are the toilet scrubbers of the software world. We spend whole days hunting semicolons, or trying to reverse engineer bug reports that no one remembers writing. I've spent a whole week trying to move a button over about an inch in all supported browsers just to make the product "pixel perfect". I've spent a whole month trying to figure out how to use a SaaS feature as advertised that had sparse documentation and no tech support.

Some newcomers really don't understand/believe that, and think it's acceptable to run for help every time something frustrates them... do everyone a favor and don't be that person, please.

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So you advocate for less communication?

Why not create a culture that embraces having new comers ask questions in a non disruptive way?

Something like a slack channel where experienced dev's can chime in if they have time.

I'd freak out on anyone on my team if they were telling new hires not to ask questions. That's just stupid.

My experience: If you come with a question and the steps you've already taken, the research you've already done, you will rarely if ever get a poor response from developers (or at least those who are decent human beings).

So, don't start with Slack. Start with the docs, then google, and then end with Slack (even as just a confirmation of your researched solution).

Agreed. I'm not saying don't ask questions. I said "not in a way that inspires rage." Just make sure you do your due diligence first. That's important.

New programmers usually don't have any exposition on what's an acceptable amount to ask and adding snark just deters them from sticking with it.

Excuse me if it comes off as snarky, but my main point is only to say that development is about three parts frustration and one part progress (and I'm being generous with the progress). You can't skip the frustration; it is what you are paid to do. Newcomers should be made aware of this, not to deter them, but to be transparent about what the job actually entails.

But if you constantly get frustrated with newcomers, and another guy is always helpful and calm, the newcomers will gravitate to that other guy. If those newcomers advance, who are they more likely to help out with things? If they go to other companies, who are they likely to give a reference to?

Getting frustrated is an emotional response, you don't have to get frustrated.

Eventually Mr. Always Helpful And Calm is going to get frustrated, too. It's about instilling the right mindset in newbies and not nurturing dependent work relationships. I like being Mr. Helpful, too, but I also like to see new devs persevere through all the frustration and bust through to the other side. Teach a man to fish, and all that.

I guess I just don't have those situations where people keep coming to me and asking me for help over and over again, but even then if there are those people you can sit them down and explain to them to not do that without snapping at them.

I've had people snap at me occasionally (not because I was asking for help, more because they were assholes in the course of doing their regular job) and the only thing that happens is I avoided them and kept a written record of the times they'd been unpleasant in case we ever needed to talk to HR.

That being said, I don't think it's an eventuality that people will always get frustrated with other people. I've never had anybody inspire "rage" in me in work situations. Other than some times I was working on tv sets and people were screaming.

This is simply not true. Not everybody looses patience and not everyone finds programming frustration. Not everyone ends up yelling at newcomer.

Also, it is possible to communicate reality of programming and "right mindset" without loosing control in the process.

It is easy to stay calm if you do not care.

No, I mean I care. I just don't let people make me frustrated. With the exception of people who are manipulative or assholes, I don't make other people responsible for my feelings. I try not too. It's not healthy to be like "I'll be calm if you learn to act in ways to not me angry."

Yes, some level of detachment can help when advising strangers and caring too much may make people act in counterproductive ways. That holds true in other contexts too. But, that is not the only thing in play.

Some people find it easy to stay calm and patient, some much harder. And some are able to recognize that "I am pissed now, better not respond immediately". Yet others are able to be polite and nice even while pissed - e.g. have above average good emotional control.

I guess I don't understand the scenario where you're being forced to answer this guys question. Why can't you come back to that question when you're not spending a week trying to move a button on a browser?

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