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Comment by dahdum | Hacker News Reader

Certainly the conditions sound horrible and should be addressed. They glossed over his convictions, so I searched and found the article below. I can see why ICE targeted him.

ROCHESTER, MN -- A Rochester man was arrested for selling drugs to an undercover officer. Police arrested 20 year-old Guled Muhumed of southeast Rochester during an ongoing narcotics investigation. Muhumed sold or possessed 11 grams of crack cocaine, or around a thousand dollars in street value, at the time of the arrest. Police say Muhumed was pulled over during a traffic stop soon after selling the drugs but as the officer walked up to the car he drove off striking another car at The Villages of Essex Park Apartments. But that didn't stop Muhumed who then fled on foot. After a short chase police were able to arrest him. He faces multiple charges including fleeing an officer and drug sales.

http://www.kttc.com/story/8294086/drug-bust-leads-to-police-...

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Note that he was not picked up by ICE after a wild police chase involving drugs, he was pickup up while driving his daughter to day care. The events in the link are from 2008 when he was a teenager. Since then he has apparently become a valued member of the community, is married to a US citizen and has US citizen children.

And he has been in the country since he was nine years old and lacks citizenship because papers filed out for his relative were not filed out for him.

It is strange to tell this long compelling story and then half way through go, "oh, and btw, he has multiple convictions for drug dealing."

While I personally would like to see all drugs legalized that does not change the fact that there are laws.

The idea that the law should be suspended for anyone who has a compelling story that can get media attention and win popular appeal is freaking insane.

If you go down that road you go from a corrupt legal system to having no rule of law at all where the legal system simply punishes people arbitrarily based on how popular and appealing they are.

He went to prison for it already and has kept clean for years afterwards. Do you think he deserves his deportation still?

It’s certainly a statement about our society that we talk about who “deserves” and doesn’t deserve to be deported (not just you, but others and even NPR use that choice of words). As if being deported is a punishment - like prison - for those of us that we can get away with applying it to.

Where you’re deported to seems like a key factor here, along with whether or not you had to flee from that place, and if you have any connections there. In this case it’s Somalia, he had to flee along with his family, and he has no connections. It’s hard to argue that it isn’t a punishment, with potentially dire consequences.

Hmm, fair point. Do you have a suitable substitution?

It’s a good question. Practically speaking, no. The US has done some pretty Machiavellian stuff to kick out immigrants before (eg. See the Mexican expulsion in the 1930s). It’s hard to justify that kind of thing given the really limited harm that illegal immigrants have on society. Open borders are also dubious given how many social services the US provides. So this is probably a reasonable policy, but it does create some strange dynamics.

He was ordered deported 8 years ago, but was allowed to stay temporarily. I think the case for him to stay should be heard by a judge who could overrule that order, according to the law.

Yes. We have standards. Accepting a willingness to commit crime goes beyond those standards.

Is he a citizen? If he is not, why should he not be deported?

He should not be deported because his life will be in jeopardy in Somalia.

That’s not just an emotional appeal. I’m pretty sure that’s a legal basis for not reporting someone.

Is that actually true? What would be the limiting principle for that rule? That logic sounds far too limiting on host country sovereignty.

I mean, that’s what asylum is for.

Absolutely.

One of my close friends is a cop in Rochester, MN. The drug problem in that city is becoming increasingly worse. Sorry, I don't have sympathy for people who take advantage of the compassion found in Western societies.

"He signed his own removal papers and was ordered to be deported to Somalia on June 15, 2010."

He agreed to be deported at the time, he just didn't understand the consequences.

Street level sales of crack shouldn’t lead to deportation to a notorious war zone. He paid his debt to society anyway, this is essentially adding a death sentence on top of it.

I have to ask, since this is HN and I presume the typical member has no experience, do you know the damage that crack, or even plain powder cocaine can do to a person? Have you truly witnessed that devastation first hand?

I have. I have no sympathy for someone who chooses to peddle drugs. One can speak about the difference in crack and powder cocaine sentencing, fair. Still, these are not marijuana. They can and will destroy lives.

That this man made it to America and chose to engage in crime says much of his character and willingness to watch humans slip into the abyss.

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