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Comment by taneq | Hacker News Reader

> virtuous self-flagellation like using reusable drinking straws

The worst thing is the push to ban plastic shopping bags, which (at least in my social circles) get reused as bin liners. Hurrah, now we have to stuff around with canvas bags (which need to be reused dozens or hundreds of times to actually be more efficient than plastic bags) AND we have to buy purpose-made bin liners (which are usually heavier duty and so use more resources and generate more waste than the original plastic bags). Net result: Just as many bags, heavier duty ones, plus canvas bags, plus inconvenience. Stupid virtue signalling.

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Are you outside the US? Because in the US, in my experience, almost all plastic bags are super thin [1] and not at all reusable; they tear at the slightest perforation, which is why grocery stores double- and triple-bag them constantly. Nothing like the thick, sturdy, glossy, eminently reusable bags I'm used to from Europe. Sometimes I get a food delivery that has a real plastic bag, and I save these, whereas all the others go directly in the trash, because they're usually already falling to pieces when I get home.

[1] https://assets-nydailynews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1200/a...

To get an idea what US plastic shopping bags are like, watch "Home Alone" and pay close attention to the scene where Kevin is walking groceries back to his house.

Then consider that plastic shopping bags have generally become thinner and more fragile since that movie was released.

Scene in question: https://youtu.be/Y-V7ZxueazA?t=86. Good example.

Except of course that there has been a substantial measurable decrease in the amount of plastic bag waste in the seas around the UK since the plastic bag change was put in place. Not to mention there are hugely fewer numbers flapping around in the trees in the woods near me.

Not stupid virtue signalling, practical action.

It seems presumptuous to assume that because you reuse all your plastic shopping bags the rest of the population also behaves similarly. Can you cite a study that shows plastic bag bans increasing the total use of plastic or plastic waste like you claim? Everything I find says otherwise. Maybe a little bit of inconvenience is necessary to improve the environment.

I think it would be a good general rule (and I should do this more as well) to do a quick search for relevant papers rather than simply saying [citation needed]. It's a bit more effort but adds a lot of value to the response.

Bin liners are kind of pointless though. Just wash your bin occasionally

That depends a lot on your local trash collection infrastructure. Where I live, I take my household trash to a larger collection bin shared by the whole building (~20 apartments) which in turn gets emptied every few days into a garbage truck. Emptying my trash directly in the the communal container (rather than containing my trash in a plastic bag) would not be popular at all, and certainly attract rats in significantly larger quantities than we currently have. There's virtually no time when the communal container is free to be cleaned - definitely not often enough that it would be a sound strategy to put empty household trash directly into it.

And yes, we sort out compostables, but a little is bound to end up in the regular trash no matter how diligent you are.

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