How mirror neurons affect the experience of fandom | Hacker News Reader

How mirror neurons affect the experience of fandom

nautil.us

25 pointsdnetesn9 comments

Isn't it possible that mirror neurons are ... nothing special ? In the sense that they're not different at all from any other neuron, they just happen to be located in places where they encode very high-level concepts.

For instance, in deep reinforcement learning, you have ... let's say "half-mirror neurons", in the sense that they fire when the network is trying to execute an action and when it is placed in that action, then they fire just the same.

Neurons are unary. They fire when they observe some high-level concept happening. Doesn't it make sense that once you go high-level enough ... it doesn't matter anymore whether it's "local" or not.

Yes, this made me think of the story about how a biologist would identify the function of parts in a radio, posted here some time ago, [1].

> A more successful approach will be to remove components one at a time or to use a variation of the method, in which a radio is shot at a close range with metal particles. In the latter case, radios that malfunction (have a “phenotype”) are selected to identify the component whose damage causes the phenotype. Although removing some components will have only an attenuating effect, a lucky postdoc will accidentally find a wire whose deficiency will stop the music completely. The jubilant fellow will name the wire Serendipitously Recovered Component (SRC) and then find that SRC is required because it is the only link between a long extendable object and the rest of the radio. The object will be appropriately named the Most Important Component (MIC) of the radio. A series of studies will definitively establish that MIC should be made of metal and the longer the object is the better, which would provide an evolutionary explanation for the finding that the object is extendable.

[1] https://bml.bioe.uic.edu/BML/Stuff/Stuff_files/biologist%20f...

... Ingo Swann introduced me to the 'mirror neuron' concept -- at his 2004 talk in Las Vegas iirc -- and suggested that these are part of the biological explanation for certain phenomenon: (so-called) extra-sensory perception, telepathy, etc.

from the article:

> The mirror neuron system is a network of neurons that activates both when you watch someone do something and when you do it yourself

Ingo also pointed out (iirc) that the effects of mirror neurons are what makes pornography so compelling for (some) men. Even though pictures are no substitute for the experience, mirror neurons allow the observer to get more stimulation than they'd get otherwise.

my earlier comment about Ingo Swann: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12997711

> extra-sensory perception, telepathy, etc.

Eh? Barring brain implants that have yet to be invented, these are in the realm of fantasy/quackery/pseudoscience.

Yeah, but mirror neurons could be what cause people to think they can read minds. Imagine watching someone over a period of time, and you subconsciously pick up on subtle cues and microexpressions that give you a more detailed picture of that person's mental state than you would otherwise be able to guess. To someone unfamiliar with the role of mirror neurons -- even to yourself -- this would be almost indistinguishable from mind reading (or at least Counselor Troi style "empathy"). It reportedly happens a lot in the scam psychic trade, wherein a charlatan comes to believe that, like Oda Mae Brown from Ghost, they've actually developed the powers they have heretofore only pretended to have. Such charlatans are called "shuteyes" in the business.

Are mirror neurons really a thing? Why can't the neurons which govern my arm be used to help predict the actions of other people's arms?

My rough understanding is that's essentially what happens. Mirror neurons (it's a relatively small area) are not, and could not be, a completely isolated replication of all the other subsystems in the brain. They just connect observation or imagination of what someone else might be experiencing to your own respective motor/cognitive areas. If there were no filter/activation subsystem for what someone else was experiencing, you'd be experiencing everyone else's experiences all the time. Or experiencing none of it.

> A Calm Look at the Most Hyped Concept in Neuroscience - Mirror Neurons

https://www.wired.com/2013/12/a-calm-look-at-the-most-hyped-...

Mirror neurons aren’t talked about enough. The repercussions in every field of human psychology (then economics, religious, etc) are huge. and really important today. I suspect we will hear about them a lot more in the future.

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