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I've been homeless, in London as well. My view on what you've described: They haven't had their epiphany about why they need to get off the streets and take care of themselves.

I say that just because they mention a short term goal and nothing more. "We haven't a bed tomorrow", rather than "We need out of this situation and off the streets for good so that they can do right by themselves and their future child".

The difference is subtle but yet huge. They're not looking to get off the streets yet, they're just looking to get a bed tomorrow.

They already know where the nightshelters are, everyone on the streets in London do and they are free.

Hostels charge and most homeless will know where those are too. Hostels vary in price, but £12 for a night is a fair ball-park.

Shelters and hostels can be found out about here: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/homelessness/emerge...

My simple summary: If you want to help, then point them towards Shelter. They haven't yet had the epiphany and aren't yet looking to leave the street, instead they've spotted you for what you are to them which is an opportunity for a little short-term comfort.

What you should do is concede you are not able to help them without them having the epiphany. Further, you should concede that even if they have the epiphany that you are not well placed to help them given your own situation. The thing you should do is to let Shelter know they exist and are calling for help. There absolutely are people skilled and with resources waiting to help them as and when they want to help themselves.

Of course, you could just ease your conscious and throw them some money and satisfy their transient need for a little hard cash... but you probably know what this is going to do, and do it once and you will be put in the position to have to do it again.

Have a look at the reasons for homelessness here: http://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_issues/tackling_homele...

Assuming that their homelessness isn't caused by a relationship breakup (unless there's a _very_ interesting story re. the pregnancy) then it seems likely that one or both is crazy, a drug addict, or an ex-convict.

If I were you, I'd invite them to dinner with your wife, at your expense, at a venue of your choice that _isn't_ your home. Do _not_ give them _any_ more personal information until you and your wife have spoken with them, figured out why they're homeless, and decided what if any assistance you want to render.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't help them, just that you ought to be aware that their problems are likely to be a _lot_ deeper than lack of housing, and far from fixable by you.

I'd like to upvote you, but I can't. Your post relies on them actually being homeless, which I strongly doubt.

This is only anecdotal evidence, but it's mine, so I weigh it heavily. I walk to work through a touristy part of Philadelphia, and I pass the same beggars every day. I never give anything more than a smile and conversation, and through that I've come to learn that they generally fall into three camps--the hustlers, the lifers, and the scammers. The hustlers don't bother me because at least they're trying to participate in commerce, usually by selling weed, oils, incense, or CDs. The lifers are generally unemployable or will not ever seek out employment again. They're easy to spot because they generally don't bother with a big spiel--"a little help on the way out?" is about as complex as it gets.

The worst group is the scammers. These are generally people with jobs, and always people with a place to stay. They're the ones whose boss left them in the city with no way to get home, whose car broke down or ran out of gas, who got off at the wrong stop and need 60 cents for a bus transfer, got stranded at the greyhound station, etc etc. They're the 21 year olds with a well fed dog and a fresh Starbucks cup but dirty clothes, dirty hair, and an ironic sign. They're never around for more than a week.

The couple you described falls squarely in the last category. They're going to hit you up for money and favors in a surprisingly escalating way. Twenty quid for a hostel leads to 60 quid for a prepaid cell phone to "apply for jobs." That turns into a new suit, etc. Meanwhile all that money goes straight to drugs or liquor.

Good advice, except for the part about letting his wife meet them.

If they are possibly "crazy, drug-addicts, or ex-convicts", then letting his pregnant wife meet them seems like a needlessly risky thing to do - who knows what they could be capable of doing if things don't go their way?

I've helped people in the past, still help people today, but my method has changed a lot over the year due to lessons learned.

Don't make anybody that you help a permanent fixture in your life (or vv) and help people only in such a way that it enables them to help themselves.

This is a lot more work than just giving money or stuff, but it will go a long way towards mitigating some or all of the problems that other strategies might land you in.

Great move of the couple to sit 'opposite the Ritz' by the way, where else to meet people like you.

They make more money in one day sat there than the bloke who work,s all day just think about where you have seen them straight across from a nice hotel ,there are many of there own kind living here who can put a roof over there head

I honestly don't know if these two are in genuine need or not but I know how easy it is to get caught up in these things and your heart rules over you head, and that's how even the least gullible people can get duped.

So let me ask a few questions for your consideration (I'm originally from London so most of this is with domain knowledge):

1) I'm surprised to hear homeless people hanging out on Picadilly in Mayfair. Rightly or wrongly they often get moved on as that area is up-market, as you know. Therefore homeless people hanging around there are quite often the opportunistic ones who come in to the area to sit for as long as they can because they know that they'll be passed by some of the most affluent folks in London and so the chances of getting money is greatest.

If these two were genuinely homeless then they would have been moved on from that area so you have to wonder whether they were instead grifting. A popular grift in that area is for a guy to come up to you and say he got a call that his wife is having their baby in the hospital so he was driving on his way there but his car ran out of petrol and he forgot to bring his wallet.. could he have £5? That is a classic grift in Mayfair and The City because £5 is nothing to most people there and I've had it pulled on me a few times without success.

It's worth nothing that a lot of grifters will take the tube into the city, pretend to be homeless, take £200+ a day, and then take the tube back out to the suburbs where they live. That's £50k+/year tax free and will rent you a house! That kind of grifting is pretty common esp in the touristy areas.

2) If they are from Transylvania then they are Romanian, which makes them EU citizens. As a homeless + pregnant EU citizen she would probably be entitled to emergency support from social services. If he has worked here an paid NI then they would almost certainly qualify.

May I ask if they represented themselves as "Transylvanian" or "Romanian" because if someone tells me they are Romanian then I would immediately say that they are EU. If you say "Transylvania" then it sounds more obscure/etc - which is also a classic confidence trick. Transylvania is not a country and so it would be an odd place to announce you are from in a foreign country.

3) Creating an artificial sense of urgency is another confidence trick (like the "my wife is having a baby" example above). Calling you at 1am and saying they have no bed tomorrow seems to be in line with that. Why did they call/text at such a late hour and not in the morning?

4) I had a friend who owned a number of flats in a building and he let some homeless people stay there to 'get back on their feet'. Instead of utilizing his kindness to get on top of things as quickly as possible they just dossed and squatted there as long as they could and then when he got pushy to have them leave they trashed the place and tried to set it alight. Even if these two are real, some people have unusual mentalities in which they can only use help to survive and don't have the ability to use it to get back on their feet. In other-words two weeks in a B&B might just take their burden off for two weeks rather than actually use it to get to the next level.

My ultimate advice would be to contact social services for Kensington and Chelsea (which I believe to be the borough for that area, see http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/housing/homelessness.aspx), who frankly are well resourced compared to other boroughs. It might be they have to go back to the borough where they last lived but as a pregnant woman they would probably assist her with that.

I would also contact Shelter and other homeless organizations as I bet they would take her on priority as she is pregnant.

(Assuming she is pregnant, which is another classic grift.)

Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, verging on negative above, but it sounds like you're pretty taken in and so I'm just trying to create some balance. I'm also minded that with so much resources and support for homeless people in London, certainly compared to here in San Francisco where there is nothing, there is no real reason for anyone to be homeless in Central London unless they are refusing assistance, are drug-dependent and won't enter rehab or are grifting.

I was going to leave out my judgment and leave this to you to decide, but I decided to add post-edit: it's almost certainly a grift. Esp waiting outside the Ritz, which you present as being ironic/juxtaposition but that's probably by design. The 1am text seems grifty too (totally unnecessary time to text, false sense of urgency).

I think the best thing you can do right now is to help them with access to these services rather than giving them money. If they are real they'll accept the help and if they are grifting the'll push you a mile away because they know its a route to getting caught.

Let us know what happens!

It's up to you to make a judgment call on this. There is always a risk to helping others. If no one takes risks life is more unpleasant. But if you do take risks there is more ... risk.

If you end up bringing them home it can really help to have someone experienced with drug counseling to be able to check in and make sure that hard drugs are not an issue. Someone experienced with drug users will be able to tell at a glance, and if that is the case, don't get too closely involved, but refer to an agency instead.

I have helped out homeless people various times, including finding them jobs and housing. Contrary to popular opinion, a lot of homeless people would really like to get off the street, and are not any more 'mentally ill' than anyone else would be in that situation. To get off the street though you need housing, for housing you need a job, to get a job you need a house. It's surprisingly easy to help someone break that cycle by putting them in a place with a phone for a couple months. What you need from the homeless person is someone willing to work even a lousy job if needed. If unwilling to work or picky about jobs then you just have a pet to feed.

@mkramlich - I did realise it was v off topic but I wanted advice from a community that has a lot of clever and thoughtful people ... and HN ;-)

I was thinking something like c1sc0 suggested - there are times when I would like to hand over a voucher for a bed for a night rather than cash. But I also understand such voucher schemes can do more harm than good. Something like pay this website, get a pdf with a random number on it. That number can be redeemed against your payment by the hostel. It is probably something that needs sponsoring by the council / govt / Shelter, but might not sit well with their policy / experience. I'll have a look-see.

So it seems the advice boils down to

* will the "system" help? Is there a reason she is not treated on NHS / RBKC housing her?

* As an emergency measure take a call if they are genuine and if so try and pay for hostel for a few nights.

I'll let you know.

Lastly is editing my own post a time limited offer? I wanted to clean up that markup crud - I think my iPhone hates me.

I gave a homeless guy accommodation once. People at the time thought that I was stupid and that he was manipulating me. However, nothing bad happened and I look back on it as one of the more useful things I have done in my life.

He left about a week later (my landlord found him and threw him out). I lost touch a while after that but eventually I heard that he had committed suicide.

At the moment I am in Germany, trying to learn German in a class with immigrants from all corners the world. In my opinion, immigrants are some of the most interesting people you could meet (they have a drive to take risks for something better) and suffer a lot from loneliness and put up with frequent racism - especially from the systems put up to help them.

You have a pregnant wife and are giving random people on the street that are probably not what they seem personal information (people are far too free with information and it's not all that hard to get more once you have some)? Are you insane?

Don't believe them. Check their story. If it fits, give them a low-cost ticket to Romania where they have their natural safety net (family and friends).

Because you stopped, there's something in it. You know it.

It's the fellow human being without a place to spend the night that you can't ignore. What separates you two are names, roots, jobs, hobbies: all of them external things. But you see yourself in the couple because you're the same as them.

Whatever you offer them, there's only so much you can do. So, do set limits.

If you buy them five nights at some hostel then make it clear that it's absolutely only five nights. At some point, everyone prefers the easy way if only there's a chance. If you give them something, it's your responsibility to limit the offer to some amount so that they can't give in to the lazy mode and expect to get more. They will ask for more, certainly, maybe two times, and they might even call you names because you then refuse.

It's perfectly ok.

Helping people isn't about ensuring that they're happy so that you can be, too: it's about giving them choice they didn't have earlier. If they choose to spend the time at the hostel wisely, they might sort out some of their things and find a job or a more permanent place. If they just chill out for a week and ask for more, it would be unsustainable and disadvantageous for both them and you to continue that way. But you can reach out now and see what happens.

I'm so touched by your desire to help. I hope things work out somehow.

@gojomo thanks that looks really useful. @willvarfar - yeah, that's a bit beyond even my liberal bleeding heart.

Homelessness has always been this background hum, but specific "how do you get a bed" questions have not been something I have ever asked before. It's surprising me.

great you are going something! depends on what you can afford...

could you afford to pay for a month in a super cheap hostel? could come in at less than £250 for a weeks. could you give him the clothes he might need for an interview? could you find jobs for them

depends on how far you feel you can go, but now they have your mobile expect to hear from them, you may seem like their only way out. good luck, and I hope this has a good ending for you all.

Google [homeless london] and try a link like http://homeless.org.uk/region-london.

your post would be prob fit better at Reddit or similar kind of site. where's the hacker/entrepreneur/geek/intellectual angle to this?

It's an interesting problem that needs solving, it got me thinking, so I guess it is appealing to the intellectual in me. What about an AirBnB-style service for the homeless, it'd need to be low tech & there'd need to be safety checks though.

Good advice is to look up hostels and such. That's the only dignified way out, short of actually starting your own hostel

Ask HN: Met homeless couple oppo. Ritz Hotel, they asked for help - - now what?