Hacker News Reader

Comment by nartz | Hacker News Reader

I'm reading a lot of these comments that say "good parenting is too subjective" - I must say i STRONGLY disagree - and am a little surprised to see so many comments like those from the HN crowd. I wonder how many of those are actual parents?

I think there are MANY pieces of parenting wisdom that are VERY accepted. For instance:

- giving kids 'structure' i.e. repetition, nighttime routines, bedtime to ensure they sleep well, etc

- consequences for negative actions <--- big one

- creating spaces and norms for activities, i.e. reading, eating, etc

- playing in certain ways including imaginative games, etc, that are age-appropriate

- ensuring lots of exercise and play that encourages dexterity, use of all body muscles, etc

anyway, i could go on and on.

View on HN

- consequences for negative actions <--- big one

And probably more important, rewards for positive actions. Positive reinforcement is pretty powerful in general.

Parent of 2 (8 and 3 yo).

Rewards for positive actions have a few side-effects that I have observed though:

1) Individuals start expecting positive reinforcement for everything they do. Doing it for the external reward instead of finding the intrinsic reward for doing the right thing on their own. This is probably extensively researched already, although i don't have sources handy right now.

2) Along time, positive reinforcements behave in accordance with the "law of diminishing returns". i.e. If you always reward positive actions with some standard reward, it will lose effect over time. With the danger of the positive action not feeling worthwhile anymore.

I thus became a great believer in the importance of negative consequences for bad behavior. I mostly apply (within reason) Shame and Restriction of freedoms to punish my kids for bad behavior (reserving the occasional physical slap for very serious offenses). Shame is a motivator that interests me a lot as a parent. I think it is an essential motivator in society in general, but the most delicate one. Too much Shame can also make you socially inept.

In the end I think its always about the right balance...

Your children are young, and the tools that are working for you now will not be as effective as they get older. In particular, if you are leaning on shame and restriction of freedom to punish, you are sowing the seeds of teenage rebellion. You can only restrict so much freedom from a teenager, and shame only matters in as much as your opinion of them matters to them; abuse either of these, and you will find yourself with a teenager who dedicates themselves to distancing themselves as much as they can from you.

In my experience, you should rather focus on building character by developing the intrinsic rewards for good behavior: we do the right thing because it is the right thing, even if it is a more difficult path. No amount of shame and punishment can get a child to do that; it has to come from something deeper and more positive.

> 1) Individuals start expecting positive reinforcement for everything they do. Doing it for the external reward instead of finding the intrinsic reward for doing the right thing on their own. This is probably extensively researched already, although i don't have sources handy right now.

I've read a book some time ago that mentioned something to this effect - motivating people with external rewards greatly lowers or straight out erases the intrinsic rewards from those tasks. To the point where people stop enjoying tasks they used to if you pay them for it.

This was based on a scientific study, if I recall - so well done on spotting this effect on your own.

I believe the book I got this from is "Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us" by Daniel H. Pink.

Ok, time to link a book : Free to learn by Peter Gray https://www.amazon.com/Free-Learn-Unleashing-Instinct-Self-R...

Or how and why parents and adults should really stop trying to control their children.

Awesome, I'll link the book to the github repo.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com