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Proven

Simply speaking they actually make more products people like to use.

Google essentially has just one, and it’s based on diminishing user privacy to the maximum extent possible.

MS collects user data but so do Ubuntu and CentOS... not to the extent Google and FB do it.

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> MS collects user data but so do Ubuntu and CentOS... not to the extent Google and FB do it.

They're working on it though.

I just installed Windows 10 for the first time on a brand new computer I bought. I was shocked to discover that I could not make an account on my own personal machine without "logging in" to a Microsoft service either with an existing or new email address. I looked up tutorials to skip that step but they all pointed to a button ("No account" or something like that) that was not on my screen, I swear. No button was provided to skip logging into a Microsoft account. Next, I had to give them my phone number for user verification. Also no way to skip that step. I had to wait for a verification code, which by the way failed, (got the message, they didn't accept the code), tried again, never got the new message.. figured out how to back out of that, then provided a proper email... Once set up, in making extra user accounts on the machine, they now differentiate for some reason between "Family" users and non-"Family" users.

This is on MY PERSONAL COMPUTER. I literally want to just be able to use Microsoft Word on the rare occasion that I am forced to use it, and I found myself having to fork over my phone number and make TWO accounts. (One for ASUS too for some reason.) I found the whole process of setting up Windows shockingly invasive. I even had to explicitly opt out of letting them advertise to me on my own personal computer, and sending my personal info to advertisers. Not on websites. There are ads on like.. the file explorer or something. I mean, what the hell? What is this a shopping mall kiosk? No, it's a laptop I bought and paid for! Why would I want ADS?

I dual-booted Ubuntu on it right away, who wanted nothing but my name and desired username, and provided extremely clear method to opt out of submitting my info to Ubuntu servers, and am happily using that now with no issues.

MS definitely want your personal information, they just aren't as good at getting it as FB. I wouldn't give them a pass on privacy, not with how Windows 10 is now organized.

I’ve installed Windows 10 Pro 1803 on two separate machines in the last month. Both with local accounts.

Could this be a Pro vs Home thing?

Anecdotal, but installed Home on my computer about a month ago and used a local account with no problem.

Running Windows Home here with a local account. Maybe you were tired or affected by a 1 in a million bug.

Nope, MS just uses some Dark Pattern (at least on home) to make it seem that way. The link to make a local account is not obvious.

> Nope, MS just uses some Dark Pattern (at least on home) to make it seem that way. The link to make a local account is not obvious.

I don't know how to prove it, maybe i should have taken a photo (but who cares right), but the link was not dark, it was _not there_. I was able to make a local account and switch to it after installation, but I was not able to completely the installation without a Microsoft account.

You don't have to believe me of course, but the screen did not appear exactly the same as in help tutorials I googled.

It’s very easy to miss, I’ve had to search around for it.

My fiancee just got a new laptop. They went from dark pattern to downright evil, the only option was to disconnect wifi, say you need a new address. Enter bullshit data and afterward it will create a local account for you. Fuck that shit.

It could also be a 1507 versus 1803 thing? The Out-of-Box installer experience in Windows 10 has changed a lot in two-and-a-half years (for the better). Not being able to find the option to use a local account was a common complaint with the 1507 installer (it was there, it was just so de-emphasized to be almost invisible) that was addressed in following OOB versions.

> I was shocked to discover that I could not make an account on my own personal machine without "logging in" to a Microsoft service either with an existing or new email address.

I installed a fresh copy of Windows relatively recently, and this wasn't something that I was forced to do.

I had that issue, then I accidentally scrolled down and found the button.. something silly like that. A lot of the installation UI hides the skip buttons unless you scroll about.

It can be done, MS just went way out of their way to stop you from doing it (and it is getting worse with each new "upgrade"). The button is there but, IIRC from the last time I had to do it, there's still like 2 more screens you have to go through and one of them tries to trick you.

One imagines Microsoft is intentionally trying to kill their Desktop OS, but has to keep being less and less subtle about it because the alternatives are so bad people are just putting up with it.

What if your laptop had no internet connection? Is an internet connection now a requirement to get a computer setup?

For Google, there's also Android, Gmail, Google Drive and Google docs

Overwhelming majority of revenue for Google doesn't come from consumer devices and services... but rather, from advertising. Microsoft has tried hard to get into that arena, but it seems nobody can really edge out Google.

Of course, most of Google's devices and services funnel data into the advertising system... but they also do have paid services that are pretty popular, GSuite (Google Apps for Business), Google Domains, Google Drive Storage (paid storage above the 10GB they give everybody for free), and some others.

One thing that gets confused is that ads are a business model not a product or service.

MS got their foot in advertising, don't think of Bing as a failure at $5 billion revenue.

Even in advertising it’s arguable that Facebook has become stronger than Google. FB ads already command a premium over Google ones. While Google is still gonna be the dominant player for the foreseeable future, it’s definitely a risk.

FB may charge more... but you don't constantly see articles about how ineffective Google advertising networks are, and they own a lot more than just one advertising network.

Fb ads are partially over.

Source: ecommerce groups on fb

I can't understand why MS hasn't made an Adsense competitor, it'll be a fairer fight.

Plus YouTube which now serves over 1.7B hours of video a day. But then Google also has others climbing like Google photos.

Google has now the most popular smart speakers in addition even though came later.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-overtakes-amazon-in-sma... Google overtakes Amazon in smart speaker market in Q1 2018 ...

For Microsoft...there's Android

"Financially Microsoft is one of the biggest winners from the growth of Android as a platform, thanks to its wide range of patents."

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.for...

They only make money on ads, though. Unless I'm missing something...

Search ads do not require the collection of user data beyond the search query to be profitable. it can be argued that they don’t violate user privacy.

You're right in theory. In practice - especially due to adsense, they HAVE TO track users at least to distinguish fraudulent clicks. At least, fraud was the initial reason for tracking.

> Simply speaking they actually make more products people like to use.

They may make more products that people do use, but that doesn't mean that people like using them.

Talk to an accountant about excel, and you might hear something about "pry it from my cold dead hands"...

And people have religious wars that put tabs/spaces to shame on Xbox VS Playstation

Google owns five of the top ten apps used on all smartphones. Not aware of any for MS?

Plus Google owns the top 2 web sites.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-used-smartphone-apps-201... The 10 most used smartphone apps - Business Insider

Microsoft owns five of the top ten platforms used by enterprises. These enterprises pay them tons of money to make these platforms run, some spending more than $100M each.

sometimes i think people can’t comprehend of products that aren’t in the consumer sphere.

Hence their shock when they realized how Facebook makes money.

Loved in the Silicon Valley pilot when Gavin Belson sneers at Richard's app because it's for consumers not enterprise.

I think it's willful disdain for corporate culture, the last vestige of anti "selling out".

Ever tried Office Lens of Office?

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